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Labour was a broad church coalition of the left and center left until Starmer took over and began to systematically purge the left.

Having a "unit" dedicated to weeding leftists out is more than just a bit of housekeeping.

Ken Loach - a multi award winning director of socialist leaning films - was kicked out for supporting a proscribed organisation. Which doesn't sound too bad until you learn that he only associated with them prior to them becoming proscribed.

And then the narrative shifted to insinuate (but very carefully not accuse him of) antisemitism.

The Labour Party is at war with the left. And it is a fight that Starmer chose to pick. It was entirely unnecessary.
I think that's a fair point.

I just dont think it matters to people who are undecided as to which party they might vote for and who aren't generally ''interested in politics'.

I'm not the hugest fan of Starmer for loads of reasons but I will be pragmatic to get the idiots currently in place out.
 
Labour was a broad church coalition of the left and center left until Starmer took over and began to systematically purge the left.

Having a "unit" dedicated to weeding leftists out is more than just a bit of housekeeping.

Ken Loach - a multi award winning director of socialist leaning films - was kicked out for supporting a proscribed organisation. Which doesn't sound too bad until you learn that he only associated with them prior to them becoming proscribed.

And then the narrative shifted to insinuate (but very carefully not accuse him of) antisemitism.

The Labour Party is at war with the left. And it is a fight that Starmer chose to pick. It was entirely unnecessary.
I think you have to bear in mind I post as just a Labour voter, I’m not an activist or a member so don’t have your depth of knowledge on these matters.

From what you post I can understand your views on Starmer.
 
I don’t think you should be too depressed, the Labour government will be picking up the pieces after a populist and right wing Tory disaster show.

Any society which has free education up to age 18, free healthcare for all, a welfare state and an old age pension is already embedded with socialist policies.

All of these things only exist because of the Labour Movement’s efforts in power and in opposition over many many years.

Starmer will come and go, like Corbyn did before him, but Labour will still be Labour and you can guarantee it will be better for ordinary working people.
Spot on that, Holgate 👍
 
...and as the world burns Starmer decides that environmentalists are the enemy.

Deliberately pandering to right-wing interests. You couldn't make it up.
 
...and as the world burns Starmer decides that environmentalists are the enemy.

Deliberately pandering to right-wing interests. You couldn't make it up.
Hang on a minute -

Renewable energy is expensive to establish but cheap to run but currently power prices are subject to the (very high) fossil fuel market, so a double hit to hard pressed working people.

Just stop oil are mainly retired fairly comfortable people stopping ordinary working people getting to work so they can pay their bills and feed their families.

Electric cars cost a fortune to buy and run.

The environmental policy needs to be carefully thought out, it’s not just sound bite material or just pandering to right wing interests.
 
The environmental policy needs to be carefully thought out, it’s not just sound bite material or just pandering to right wing interests.

Carefully thought out? :unsure: Not just pandering to right wing interests?

"I hate treehuggers" and "protesting is rude".


 
Right now, a competent, non corrupt government is desperately needed. Personally, I think seismic change is needed long term...but this country won't buy into that yet.

So, FFS, let's just get this lot out!

The problem with this is if you have 5 or 10 years of a do-nothing centrist government under the Labour banner, when people decide they're ready to vote for this seismic change who are they going to elect and what sort of change will they bring in? You're describing the ratchet effect.
 
Half truth about the cost to buy, complete, unquestioning lie about the cost to run
Correct me if I’m wrong, no intention to post lies -

I’m basing my comment on £30k for a new Nissan Leaf, or thereabout, in my view that’s a lot of money for normal people.

Electric cost about 10p per mile? I think that’s a lot, similar to petrol cars which I already think are very expensive to fuel.
 
Hang on a minute -

Renewable energy is expensive to establish but cheap to run but currently power prices are subject to the (very high) fossil fuel market, so a double hit to hard pressed working people.

Just stop oil are mainly retired fairly comfortable people stopping ordinary working people getting to work so they can pay their bills and feed their families.

Electric cars cost a fortune to buy and run.

The environmental policy needs to be carefully thought out, it’s not just sound bite material or just pandering to right wing interests.
Then formulate a policy and explain how you're going to tackle the issues facing the country and the planet.

Don't make stupid comments about "tree-huggers". It's just so ridiculously self-defeating.

You could capture a large chunk of the voting public just by announcing that you'll end the ties between fossil-fuel and renewable pricing. It's such an easy win and you wrap it up as making renewables more competitive and therefore more appealing to investors etc.

Locally that would be translated into more potential jobs in the energy sector. Everyone wins.
 
Carefully thought out? :unsure: Not just pandering to right wing interests?

"I hate treehuggers" and "protesting is rude".


I’m not sure what point you are making?

There were a lot of petrol and diesel cars on the road this morning taking people to work, school and wherever else they were travelling, you can’t just stop oil quite yet.
 
Then formulate a policy and explain how you're going to tackle the issues facing the country and the planet.

Don't make stupid comments about "tree-huggers". It's just so ridiculously self-defeating.

You could capture a large chunk of the voting public just by announcing that you'll end the ties between fossil-fuel and renewable pricing. It's such an easy win and you wrap it up as making renewables more competitive and therefore more appealing to investors etc.

Locally that would be translated into more potential jobs in the energy sector. Everyone wins.
Completely agree.
 
Carefully thought out? :unsure: Not just pandering to right wing interests?

"I hate treehuggers" and "protesting is rude".
To be fair it doesn't sound like it was said in public, but I suppose that's only a small point.

Apparently, he first said he's not interested in tree huggers, as he was more interested in creating sustainable jobs to replace jobs in old sectors which were being lost. This latter comment has to be a priority I think, and there has to be priorities, even more so for now and the future, as we're skint and in one hell of a hole.

Saying he hates tree huggers was him losing his rag a bit, which is ok, everyone does it, but like Reeves said "there are better ways to tackle the climate emergency than stopping working people getting to their jobs”.

The public are probably largely behind green policies, but they can also not be supportive of just stop oil or tree huggers etc.
You can want to be greener or support a cause without supporting a disruptive protest, and not everything needs a protest.

Some Trees have to come down to build infrastructure, and the protection they get is massive, I work on schemes to avoid damage to trees every day, where new infrastructure needs to be installed, it's one of my main jobs (I've saved thousands of trees and limited damage to others with and without TPO's etc). Construction spends an absolute fortune on it (which ultimately the taxpayer pays). All wood sourced for construction in the UK is sustainable etc, every small firm upwards has to have sustainability/ timber policies or they don't get accreditations which they need to win contracts etc.

Sure, the world is 100% in a hole with the environment, but the UK has actually done quite well on green schemes over the last 15 years or so, it's one of the few things the Tories have largely done ok at (surprisingly), and we're doing a hell of a lot better than a lot of places in the EU, in similar positions as we are.

It just seems a bit of an odd thing to protest (Trees or JSO), when we're facing absolutely massive issues elsewhere, and the topics they're protesting about are ones we're not doing bad on (we're doing bad and much worse on 100's of others).

Of course, protesting for what we do in the UK doesn't actually mean much either, not in the grand scheme of things, not when the current and next superpowers are doing very little, we're a drop in the ocean compared to them, and we're doing out bit I think. Of course, we could do better, but it often comes at a cost.

The problem we have now is we're in a financial and economic hole, and likely a jobs hole in the future, and people's immediate lives have to be a priority.
 
To be fair it doesn't sound like it was said in public, but I suppose that's only a small point.

Apparently, he first said he's not interested in tree huggers, as he was more interested in creating sustainable jobs to replace jobs in old sectors which were being lost. This latter comment has to be a priority I think, and there has to be priorities, even more so for now and the future, as we're skint and in one hell of a hole.

Saying he hates tree huggers was him losing his rag a bit, which is ok, everyone does it, but like Reeves said "there are better ways to tackle the climate emergency than stopping working people getting to their jobs”.

The public are probably largely behind green policies, but they can also not be supportive of just stop oil or tree huggers etc.
You can want to be greener or support a cause without supporting a disruptive protest, and not everything needs a protest.

Some Trees have to come down to build infrastructure, and the protection they get is massive, I work on schemes to avoid damage to trees every day, where new infrastructure needs to be installed, it's one of my main jobs (I've saved thousands of trees and limited damage to others with and without TPO's etc). Construction spends an absolute fortune on it (which ultimately the taxpayer pays). All wood sourced for construction in the UK is sustainable etc, every small firm upwards has to have sustainability/ timber policies or they don't get accreditations which they need to win contracts etc.

Sure, the world is 100% in a hole with the environment, but the UK has actually done quite well on green schemes over the last 15 years or so, it's one of the few things the Tories have largely done ok at (surprisingly), and we're doing a hell of a lot better than a lot of places in the EU, in similar positions as we are.

It just seems a bit of an odd thing to protest (Trees or JSO), when we're facing absolutely massive issues elsewhere, and the topics they're protesting about are ones we're not doing bad on (we're doing bad and much worse on 100's of others).

Of course, protesting for what we do in the UK doesn't actually mean much either, not in the grand scheme of things, not when the current and next superpowers are doing very little, we're a drop in the ocean compared to them, and we're doing out bit I think. Of course, we could do better, but it often comes at a cost.

The problem we have now is we're in a financial and economic hole, and likely a jobs hole in the future, and people's immediate lives have to be a priority.
Spot on, Labour (and all politicians) have to live in the real world more now than ever, people’s day to day lives and keeping heads above water are the top priority.
 
Spot on, Labour (and all politicians) have to live in the real world more now than ever, people’s day to day lives and keeping heads above water are the top priority.

:ROFLMAO:🤷‍♂️ FFS its just impossible to get through. Leaking rubbish like "I hate tree huggers" is living in the real world? Come off it. Talking about investing in renewables and creating jobs as if they're a dichotomy is obviously false to anyone who thinks about it for any amount of time.
 
Carefully thought out? :unsure: Not just pandering to right wing interests?

"I hate treehuggers" and "protesting is rude".


I wonder if she would have backed the Suffragettes?
 
:ROFLMAO:🤷‍♂️ FFS its just impossible to get through. Leaking rubbish like "I hate tree huggers" is living in the real world? Come off it. Talking about investing in renewables and creating jobs as if they're a dichotomy is obviously false to anyone who thinks about it for any amount of time.
I’ve worked in the renewables industry for the past 15 years, so spare me the exasperation if I disagree with you.

Renewables costs a lot of money, needs government subsidy and will take many more years to implement a complete transition from fossil fuel to renewable energy.

You have to have a plan and not just jump aboard random unaccountable bandwagons like just stop oil.

It‘s nothing to do with politics really, I was brought up in a house which burned coal and I can reassure you there was nothing right wing about my upbringing, it was just a way to keep warm.
 
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