Warnock - 'a few things wrong at the club'

SilentProf said:
People talk about Britt being on £40k per week like they’ve seen his contract. Has this been confirmed anywhere or are people just passing off rumour as fact? It’s the same with other players too. People do calculations of fees and wages for multiple players without knowing either.
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39k.
 
I'm a big Warnock fan but I do wonder who follows on from him. His methods are very old school and not many managers are remotely like him. Whoever it is will be a big change and adjustment I think and that's just more upheaval. Something we know isn't cheap in football.
 
SilentProf said:
People talk about Britt being on £40k per week like they’ve seen his contract. Has this been confirmed anywhere or are people just passing off rumour as fact? It’s the same with other players too. People do calculations of fees and wages for multiple players without knowing either.
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I'm not sure about the exact figures. They range from 30k-40k....if remotely true over 4 years it's stunning.

Warnock openly said 2 weeks ago that Britts agent deserved a pat on the back for the deal he got him. That suggest even NW was suprised by whatever he was on.

I remember pulis saying Braithwaite was one of the highest paid players in the champo (so more than Britt?). He said he would have been in the top 5-6 at his premier league WBA squad. Once again stunning🙄

We over paid for both and stuck them on crippling 4 year deals. It wouldn't suprise me one bit if we picked up some of Braithwaites wages until he signed for Barca. Just to get him off the books.
 
Cosmonaut said:
Not even got through this whole thread now but this is exactly my feeling too. We seemed to place trust in Pulis to get things in order' but once he'd gone, nothing appeared to have changed and we're left with the same mess. He was warming the seat for Woodgate and that period was nothing short of a disaster, can only imagine what it was like behind the scenes though I will give him credit, we brought in a couple of players who Warnock has got performing, the likes of Dijksteel, Bola.

The way we have operated in terms of scouting/bringing in players has been woeful for far too long now. NW will clearly see this but whether that is something he is able to change and set us on path to do better remains to be seen.

Do folk reckon it could have an impact on whether he hangs on for another season?? I dread to think of who else would come in if NW decided come end of this season, that he's done what he can with what he had and would rather not continue given how things are operating behind the scenes at the club.

Just speculating, of course ... but I do worry and have been waiting a long time now like everyone else for us to get a decent system in order in terms of bringing players in and the managing of finances .. of course, Covid hasn't helped, and come to the Summer window, it's still going to be difficult getting what we want if NW decides to hang around. We're seeing teams all over in this league with more nous than us when it comes to bringing in players from the lower tiers and unearthing a 'gem' here and there ... I can't think of much we've done at all since relegation under Karanka from the PL apart from most recently, Watmore and giving him a chance! Thank God we managed that because he's been a gem for us recently without a doubt and kept us from dropping further down the league.

I dread to think of what would happen with the players we have currently, should a new manager come in if NW decides to leave at the end of this campaign. I don't trust the club currently, to make the right decision and it's fortunate NW answered the phone to help keep us up last season and got the appetite to stick around and give it a go.

Being realistic NW knew with the players he taken over from JW that this season, a top-six finish would be ambitious putting it mildly, unless he got the backing he wanted before the season started. I get the impression he was given a few promises and let down on more than one occasion.

I'm just leaving my thoughts having seen the thread title, things seem a little rough at the moment but I'm glad we still managed the three points last night. Just irritating it come at a cost and we've now lost McNair after the red card.

I hope we manage to stick together and grind out another couple of wins after last night and who knows where that might take us in the table, if we can do it. It's what is going on behind the scenes at the club I always worry about. Our scouting has been gash for too long now, managers in the past given too much money to waste on dross. If only NW was around at the time of Monk/Pulis .. perhaps we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

Hope I'm wrong and things get better. I just hope NW sticks around to build this squad into a real Championship-winning/auto position side.
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I do think that Warnock is still very much up for a push for the playoffs. I think he’s disappointed how we failed to bring in a target man, I’m guessing he’s undecided on whether he stays next season.. sounds like he’s happy to sit down with Gibson and tell him what the club needs to be at the level we’re capable of being. The talk of us being an ideal club for a young manager makes me think that maybe he will step down.
 
newyddion said:
The best decisions transfer wise were made under Tony Mowbray. I think the biggest successes under Karanka came from the Chelsea loan players. Into the prem we made some massive errors. Too many gambles, too many short term gains. Then of course under Monk with the league smashing £50m money burning exercise.. Tony Pulis continuing the wasteful spending. Bola, Ditksteel & Browne were a step in the right direction. Under Warnock it’s only really been missing out on a decent striker.
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I say this all of the time, Tony Mowbray polished turds and found diamonds on pebble beaches.

He had us top at one point.
 
Big_Nothing said:
I'm a big Warnock fan but I do wonder who follows on from him. His methods are very old school and not many managers are remotely like him. Whoever it is will be a big change and adjustment I think and that's just more upheaval. Something we know isn't cheap in football.
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All managers are different Eddie Howe, Frank Lampard, Danny Cowley.. maybe this moment in time is our Tony Mowbray period where he set the wheels in motion (the core of the team) for a younger manager to come in.
 
Redwurzel said:
BM - transfer fees are massively higher - Britt was £15m he has never played in the Premier League to my knowledge. Pre Covid all transfer fee are miles higher than in 1985. Even in Covid days Brentford paid £10m for Toney a Division 1 player.
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These are the abnomilies not the norm. Most championship clubs are still paying 500-2mill for players. Back in 86 those some level of clubs were paying 100-400k. Britt is an example of prem money being used by a champ club, Toney is an example of a champ club selling multiple players to a prem team and getting access to prem money. There are also an extraordinary number of free transfers today due to Bosman that didn't exist in 1986, which allows more money to divert to the big transfers.
 
BM - we will have to agreee to disagree about the fact that transfer fees are much higher now, but I have quoted specific quantifiable figures. Furthemore the Boro didn't pay a fee for a player between approx September 1982 and March 1985, just frees and loans as you say before Bosman.
 
HundredRoom said:
If we could get Tony Mowbray back in charge I would love it. He had us at a very difficult time but we have a hard reset come next august in many different ways.
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I don’t think he’d come back tbh he saved the club, patched us up built up the core of the team that would see us promoted and competing against the biggest teams in the country. Since then we have appear to taken a massive step backwards wasting money like is was going out of fashion.
 
Redlips said:
I say this all of the time, Tony Mowbray polished turds and found diamonds on pebble beaches.

He had us top at one point.
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He also fell out of the plane without a parachute two seasons running. Once is unfortunate, twice is not so much
 
I agree with what most are saying. Its not un obvious that every important decision after McLaren up-to Karanka and then again after Karanka upto Warnock has beem wrong. Im not Warnock’s biggest fan but last season at least, we needed him. Having said that, we some decent players but hes got a few things wrong that have contributed to our poor run. Playing Saville for example. He also paid money for Akpom. Watch Akpom for a bit and then think, he gets paid for that? Baffling. We must surely have a youth team player that can offer more
 
It’s having full time recruiting staff then doing deals on the managers contact book at 11.30 on deadline day.

The same faces from the overhaul Gibbo promised on relegation have remained. Managers, players and coaches have came and gone. Those that identify players, negotiate fees and wages are all still in those roles. Bafflingly obvious.
 
Pulis felt the signings he inherited weren't balanced - we had brought in all those forwards, almost without thinking how they could fit together as a strikeforce. He felt the squad was seriously unbalanced. From what we have read, Steve Gibson later questioned what lay behind some of those buys and the prices. But I cannot really go further into that.
From my part I was excited about the appointment of Garry Monk, lots of us were. He was really highly thought of in the game at the time. But I soon found that I could not understand what he was saying at press conferences. Maybe not important except I wondered if anyone really knew what he was trying to achieve on the pitch. Did the players understand him?
So, Tony Pulis was faced with having to balance the books but also balance the team. He bought a goal scoring midfielder and goalscoring defender loved by his own fans. But had to sell assets and not the players he necessarily wanted to sell but those who were in demand and could command fees.
I guess we are now almost at the start of a new cycle. How do we plan going forward. Warnock is a manager that likes to buy players but then so did Monk. How many managers can you trust like Warnock or do you put in a system like Brentford where the coach is just that and coaches the players the club nurtures and signs? That is not a club Warnock or Pulis would be comfortable with. That was the system Karanka said he wanted, he was a European style head coach, hence why he never went to signings press conferences. But the evidence was that he didn't agree with many signings bought for him.
Anyway, at a time when we have very little money we will need to work out a strategy going forward and surely having a management dropping anchor for a couple of seasons is the only realistic way of truly getting a system and a plan bedded in.
 
Rob cant agree. Pulis balancing the team? Is that why we bought Saville for twice he's worth? Selling players he didnt want to sell? You mean like when we could of sold gestede but sold Bamford instead? Selling Traore no arguments. But other than that Pulis just looked after himself and set the club even further back didn't steady it. For example Warnock came in and pretty much straight away said the club needed restructuring. Isn't that what Pulis was supposed to do? Terrible decisions for a decade plus. No excuses
 
rob_fmttm said:
Pulis felt the signings he inherited weren't balanced - we had brought in all those forwards, almost without thinking how they could fit together as a strikeforce. He felt the squad was seriously unbalanced. From what we have read, Steve Gibson later questioned what lay behind some of those buys and the prices. But I cannot really go further into that.
From my part I was excited about the appointment of Garry Monk, lots of us were. He was really highly thought of in the game at the time. But I soon found that I could not understand what he was saying at press conferences. Maybe not important except I wondered if anyone really knew what he was trying to achieve on the pitch. Did the players understand him?
So, Tony Pulis was faced with having to balance the books but also balance the team. He bought a goal scoring midfielder and goalscoring defender loved by his own fans. But had to sell assets and not the players he necessarily wanted to sell but those who were in demand and could command fees.
I guess we are now almost at the start of a new cycle. How do we plan going forward. Warnock is a manager that likes to buy players but then so did Monk. How many managers can you trust like Warnock or do you put in a system like Brentford where the coach is just that and coaches the players the club nurtures and signs? That is not a club Warnock or Pulis would be comfortable with. That was the system Karanka said he wanted, he was a European style head coach, hence why he never went to signings press conferences. But the evidence was that he didn't agree with many signings bought for him.
Anyway, at a time when we have very little money we will need to work out a strategy going forward and surely having a management dropping anchor for a couple of seasons is the only realistic way of truly getting a system and a plan bedded in.
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You can’t say Pulis balanced the team when he played 5 centre backs, 4 centre midfielders and a lone striker when he had the players on the bench to not play teams like that. Doesn’t wash with me
 
Ref Balancing in the Summer of 2018 I tend to agree with Block 21 and Ted - why sell Bamford to bring in a very expensive Saville? (we had lots of central midfielders Howson, Leadbitter, Clayton, Wing and Besic) why sell Bamford and bring in Hugill (if we had too many forwards). We were crying out for wide attacking players none were signed and Johnson was sent out on loan. Hull wanted Fletcher but he was kept so it was not true there was no interest.

I could understand trying Flint for Gibson, but we needed a Traore replacement. Shotton was playing right back and he never looked quite right there for me.
 
In five years from now we will of had three managers, be trying get players off the wage bill for losses as fast as we can.

Gill will be chief scout.
Bausor will be chief executive.
Recruitment team will be same full time staff.
 
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