Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret
Well-known member
Is this just a general moaning thread? My back hurts. It's too cold.
Warnock - 'a few things wrong at the club'
- Thread starter Ironops
- Start date
Marvanelli
Well-known member
The decisions are the club since Aitor left have been nothing but a disgrace.
We've never learned neither. We blasted the best part of £50m on rubbish under Monk. You'd think we would have smartened up after that, but then comes along Pulis who is happy to tell us all there's problems behind the scenes and proceeds to blast £20m on players we didn't need or he refused to use.
Our decision making in general has been shocking for a good number of years now.
We've never learned neither. We blasted the best part of £50m on rubbish under Monk. You'd think we would have smartened up after that, but then comes along Pulis who is happy to tell us all there's problems behind the scenes and proceeds to blast £20m on players we didn't need or he refused to use.
Our decision making in general has been shocking for a good number of years now.
Otto42
Well-known member
Even when things were running in our favour (mid 90s to noughties) and we achieved great success we never seemed particularly well run......the prime example being the three points saga, but also the money we must have spent to attract such as Boksic, Karambeau etc....and still struggle in the bottom half of the premier league!
newyddion
Well-known member
The best decisions transfer wise were made under Tony Mowbray. I think the biggest successes under Karanka came from the Chelsea loan players. Into the prem we made some massive errors. Too many gambles, too many short term gains. Then of course under Monk with the league smashing £50m money burning exercise.. Tony Pulis continuing the wasteful spending. Bola, Ditksteel & Browne were a step in the right direction. Under Warnock it’s only really been missing out on a decent striker.
Nosmo-King
Well-known member
In fairness, the keeper and Akpom have hardly been successes
Borobuddah
Well-known member
It seems the tide is turning against him on here, I think (hope) he sees the season out and then all concerned review the situation
S7DiscoDown
Well-known member
Guedioura / Bamford and Rudy was a truly bizzare window. Rudy or Bamford had never scored goals at the prem level. Yet we needed goals.
Guedioura.... Absolutely baffling.
Guedioura.... Absolutely baffling.
brain_in_a_jar
Well-known member
I don't think its any surprise that this kind of stuff is coming out in the middle of a poor run of form. Deflection tacktics at their best.
We surely can't be blaming our recruitment team for the signings this season, most of them NW has said were his first choice. I don't think any of them have been particularly great.
We surely can't be blaming our recruitment team for the signings this season, most of them NW has said were his first choice. I don't think any of them have been particularly great.
McBrid
Well-known member
Would agree with this.
changingman
Well-known member
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, a director of football would tick many of the boxes above...
What are our objectives?
How do we want to play?
Recruitment model (from within, loans, UK/Europe etc)
I really believe it would give us some long term stability and thread which runs through management/player recruitment and style of play. Otherwise we risk changing strategy every 1-2 years and wasting a whole heap of money in the process.
I was excited when it seemed we'd got Peter Kenyon on board to perform that very role but it appeared a clash of egos put paid to that (I believe he left with Karanka taking the whole structure with him?)
What are our objectives?
How do we want to play?
Recruitment model (from within, loans, UK/Europe etc)
I really believe it would give us some long term stability and thread which runs through management/player recruitment and style of play. Otherwise we risk changing strategy every 1-2 years and wasting a whole heap of money in the process.
I was excited when it seemed we'd got Peter Kenyon on board to perform that very role but it appeared a clash of egos put paid to that (I believe he left with Karanka taking the whole structure with him?)
Linthorpe_Exile
Well-known member
I think the club has an inferiority complex.
newusername
Well-known member
I'd argue he kept Southgate too long in the Premier League but then having kept the faith, pulled the trigger far too early the following season.
Less said about Strachan the better, at least he didn't dwell on it.
Mowbray had plateaued.
Karanka had gone mad trying to micro-manage everything & removing him from the firing line was the right thing to do. Not replacing him was idiotic.
Monk, see Strachan.
Relatively Pulis was got rid of early. Historically if you last a season under Gibson you get c.3 years & 150+ games, Pulis got 80
Woodgate, see Strachan.
Warnock, get the impression he is here for as long as he wants not the other way round.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
I don’t think it’s that
I think we are far far too parochial and sadly locality trumps expertise and knowledge look at the appointment of woody we all knew it was inevitable yet the club denied that he’d get it and that we were scouting the best candidates etc we all know the reality.
brain_in_a_jar
Well-known member
should have said in my initial post, nothing I said was a criticism of NW. I think he's doing about as well as I could have hoped this season, I don't think we're one of the best 6 teams in the championship and us being in and around 6th is a great effort.
There's just a habit of our recruitment team being bashed consistently on this board and nobody even knows what signings are down to the recruitment team and which ones are down to managers. It seems the good ones are down to the managers and the crap ones are down to recruitment.
This season though its clearly down to Warnock and they've been as average as any other period of recruitment we've had. The only particularly bad one was following karanka after relegation - but I'd have never had monk in a million years anyway and again I think that's down to the manager more than the recruitment team.
Finally when it comes to what we pay for players - of course we pay over the odds for certain players, we've got too to get them to come. It really baffles me that Pulis and Warnock have found that concept so hard to get their heads round. If you're a player without any links to the area I'm not having any of them have middlesbrough on their radar for a place they'd love to move too, so the only way you convince them to come is by paying them more. Money has traditionally (well in the gibson era at least) has given us our competitive edge, we don't have that these days and we're struggling to adapt.
There's just a habit of our recruitment team being bashed consistently on this board and nobody even knows what signings are down to the recruitment team and which ones are down to managers. It seems the good ones are down to the managers and the crap ones are down to recruitment.
This season though its clearly down to Warnock and they've been as average as any other period of recruitment we've had. The only particularly bad one was following karanka after relegation - but I'd have never had monk in a million years anyway and again I think that's down to the manager more than the recruitment team.
Finally when it comes to what we pay for players - of course we pay over the odds for certain players, we've got too to get them to come. It really baffles me that Pulis and Warnock have found that concept so hard to get their heads round. If you're a player without any links to the area I'm not having any of them have middlesbrough on their radar for a place they'd love to move too, so the only way you convince them to come is by paying them more. Money has traditionally (well in the gibson era at least) has given us our competitive edge, we don't have that these days and we're struggling to adapt.
Laughing
Well-known member
you may be right, I have a few comments. Karanka probably should have been supported by the club, not financially, but to find the balance he needed to be able to do his job. If required get someone else in he trusts to do the micro managing.
Southgate I would agree in as much as he should have been allowed to try and get us back up after relegation. Not sure about the wisdom of sacking him the year before, but I know that's not a popular opinion.
Since Southgate Gibson seems to be pretty quick at firing through a fairly insipid period. Mowbray needed rescuing I think, for his own good as much as anything else. I cannot argue with your comments re strachan, but he should never have been hired, in my opinion.
Monk and Woodgate, I dunno, I didn't much like either of their tenures and I actively took a dislike to Monk, seemed like a smug t*t, though I may be wrong. I just think you don't invest all that money re monk then get rid of him, and be aware we are not sacking them, we are paying up their contracts. If you give em 50 million, make them sure they do the job they are paid to do.
Oh I know nothing....
Linthorpe_Exile
Well-known member
I know what you mean, but what I was really getting at was the huge transfer fees and generous salaries we seem to have no hesitation in paying. Maybe we are continually being mugged in broad daylight, or think "no-one will come here" I don't really know but when you think of the genuine flops we've had for big big money (Alves?) you have to wonder.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
I don't think Warnock is talking about recruitment in this instance. I remember back in the summer when he said the recruitment staff were talking up a defender who they said was "the best in Europe according to stats they use" but he disagreed so we didn't sign him. To me that shows that they don't sign anyone without the manager's blessing. They can recommend who they like but do people really think experienced managers like Pulis and Warnock would put up with recruitment experts buying players they don't want? I can't see it.
You can see it just by looking at the players who have arrived under each manager - Karanka lost his way with bringing in too many Spanish-speaking players. Monk bought way too many players and didn't know how or what he wanted to do. Pulis bought big players who prefer to be inside their own half. Woodgate didn't know what he wanted to do or how he wanted us to play(or how to get us to play in a style). Warnock is feeding off scraps because he spent most of his money on Akpom and then couldn't shift Assombalonga. The team reflects the manager and the recruitment tends to reflect whoever is in the dugout.
I think he's probably on about stuff like leadership. Too many players went missing on Saturday. He's probably also just chucking a little distraction piece out there because we're not winning. He didn't talk much about 'behind the scenes' issues when we were winning games and Manager of the Month awards, much like Pulis didn't really mention it much until things went t*ts up and he had to think about his next contract.
You can see it just by looking at the players who have arrived under each manager - Karanka lost his way with bringing in too many Spanish-speaking players. Monk bought way too many players and didn't know how or what he wanted to do. Pulis bought big players who prefer to be inside their own half. Woodgate didn't know what he wanted to do or how he wanted us to play(or how to get us to play in a style). Warnock is feeding off scraps because he spent most of his money on Akpom and then couldn't shift Assombalonga. The team reflects the manager and the recruitment tends to reflect whoever is in the dugout.
I think he's probably on about stuff like leadership. Too many players went missing on Saturday. He's probably also just chucking a little distraction piece out there because we're not winning. He didn't talk much about 'behind the scenes' issues when we were winning games and Manager of the Month awards, much like Pulis didn't really mention it much until things went t*ts up and he had to think about his next contract.
festa5
Well-known member
Plenty of other clubs in the same boat though. Most northern clubs probably.
I'd suggest we're actually a more attractive proposition than a lot of our northern rivals. The training facilities must be a big draw and if players want a big city they can and do live somewhere within striking distance of Leeds or Newcastle.
There's maybe a bit of a stereotype to overcome and we do have a disadvantage over southern and particularly London clubs.
But I also think too much is made of "no-one wants to come to Middlesbrough". Convenient excuse for the club at times.
Jedi boro
Well-known member
Oh yes I agree with that but the biggest thing for me is not appointing a manager already in another job this naive in the extreme this moral compass that no one else in the game does.
Even Hartlepool go after and appoint existing managers