Kieran Scott’s recruitment really coming to fruition now

I broadly agree but this summer is the real test. It has to be quality now. I don’t really want to see players like Greenwood, Gilbert, Thomas and Silvera pitching up. Any player signed needs to go straight into the team.

We’ve also had huge issues up front this season, which is in part down to the recruitment side. And we weakened ourselves in January. But as I said, I broadly agree with the OP.
Said a few times it's definitely quality over quantity this summer. Need minimum 3 quality signings, 4 if Hackney goes. No projects, unless we are in a lovely position after the quality has been brought in and someone really interesting becomes available.

These three (or 4) have to go straight into the first team.
 
Maybe you should send your CV into a few championship clubs? - Hardly any of them have made any decent waves in the loan market this season.
How many of them played without a striker? Not getting one as a stop gap was criminal.
 
I broadly agree but this summer is the real test. It has to be quality now. I don’t really want to see players like Greenwood, Gilbert, Thomas and Silvera pitching up. Any player signed needs to go straight into the team.

We’ve also had huge issues up front this season, which is in part down to the recruitment side. And we weakened ourselves in January. But as I said, I broadly agree with the OP.

Yeah, I think it's hopefully going to be both.

We've apparently created the headroom now. If that was the objective then job done. What comes next is important.

I've no doubt we'll still be primarily targeting younger players with potential sell on value, but you'd expect them to be more highly rated and less of a unknown. More players with 2+ seasons of footy under their belts.

But I'm assuming that will still be supplemented with a few more punts, which is fine. Don't buy a ticket you can't win the lottery.

Agree though the core 16 or so first teamers should really now be players the club are pretty confident are ready and good enough for a serious promotion push.
 
My posts might look negative but I'm not being negative. I broadly agree with what we are trying to achieve. I'm just not going to proclaim him King Keiran until there is actually some measure of success. I don't care how good our balance sheet looks or how much profit we make off players if it doesn't translate to an improvement in quality within the squad and an improvement in performances in the pitch. We're going to finish well behind last season and I just find it bizarre that anyone would be signing his praises when the majority of our issues this season have been due to poor recruitment (over several years, not a single window).
 
I think it's probably true to say that the focus of fans is different to that of the club.

Gibson wants a sustainable club for the longterm. If it takes 2,3 or even 4 seasons for the current strategy to lead to promotion, whilst balancing the books, that will be seen as success for the club.

Fans want to make a fist of promoting every season. It's not their money bankrolling the club.
I know what you mean but I don’t even use the term balancing the books. he’s prepared to make losses where necessary, to invest in playing assets and build ffp for a future push.
 
I know what you mean but I don’t even use the term balancing the books. he’s prepared to make losses where necessary, to invest in playing assets and build ffp for a future push.
Agree with that. Patience isn't a great virtue amongst fans in general but I can see what they are trying to do.
 
The club is losing £10m per season to stand still in the Championship.
Dress it up however you like but it is true.
Our squad is worth no more now than two years ago.
We are way short on quality for a promotion charge.
Scott might take his finger out of his **** this summer and give Carrick that promotion ready squad, but why on earth would anybody would be confident of that.
 
Our squad start of this season was worth no more than our squad 2 years ago? I think that is probably debatable

Which valuable assets have we lost in that time? Akpom Tav and Spence? £30m

Who have we got gained? VDB, Rogers, Lath, development of Hackney - more than £30m worth of assets surely
It is certainly very debatable.
it is incredible people buy this **** that Scott is actually building something.
 
Our squad start of this season was worth no more than our squad 2 years ago? I think that is probably debatable

Which valuable assets have we lost in that time? Akpom Tav and Spence? £30m

Who have we got gained? VDB, Rogers, Lath, development of Hackney - more than £30m worth of assets surely
what was Akpoms value 2 years ago, I'm sure we would've been happy to let him go on a free
 
Worth more money but gone backwards on the pitch. I know which one I care more about.
 
Our squad start of this season was worth no more than our squad 2 years ago? I think that is probably debatable

Which valuable assets have we lost in that time? Akpom Tav and Spence? £30m

Who have we got gained? VDB, Rogers, Lath, development of Hackney - more than £30m worth of assets surely
Looking at the squads over the last 4 seasons, it's been a massive overhaul in playing asset value. I think from where we were 4 years ago we have improved quality in every department, and improved the squad value, and done without building debt, in fact selling Akpom, Tav and Spence has pretty much paid for the overhaul. The progression is there to see,

20/2121/2222/2323/24
GKPears £500k
Stojanovik £500k
Bryn £100k


Total = 1.1m
Quality = D
Lumley 1m
Stojanovic 500k
Brynn 250k
Daniels 500k​

Total = 2.25m
Quality = C
Lumley 500k
Roberts 500k
Daniels 500k
Brynn 500k

Total = 2m
Quality = C
Dieng 5m
Glover 500k
Jones 0
Brynn 1m

Total = 6.5m
Quality = A
(GK department is good enough for auto promotion)
DFFry 6m
McNair 4m
Hall 1m
Wood 100k
Stubbs 100k
Bola 500k
Coulson 500k
Dijksteel 1m
Spence 7m
Fisher 500k



Total = 20.7m
Quality = B
(7-12th in champo)
Fry 6m
McNair 4m
Hall 1m
Wood 100k
Bamba 100k
Bola 500k
Coulson 500k
Taylor 500k
Dijksteel 1m
Spence 7m
Fisher 500k
Peltier 300k

Total = 21.5m
Quality = B

Fry 5m
McNair 3.5m
Lenihan 3m
Clarke 3m
Hall 500k
Bola 300k
Coulson 100k
Dijksteel 500k
Smith 500k
Fisher 0

Total = 16.4m
Quality = B-
(didn't really own viable championship fullbacks)
Fry 3m
McNair 0
Van Den Berg 15m
Clarke 4m
Lenihan 2m
Engel 1m
Bangura 1m
Dijksteel 500k
Smith 100k

Total = 26.6m
Quality = B
play off quality
MFHackney 100k
Saville 1.5m
Wing 1m
Morsy 1m
Howson 1m
Tavernier 12m

Total = 16.6m
Quality = B
Hackney 300k
Payero 2m
Morsy 1m
Howson 1m
Boyd-Munce 100k
Tavernier 12m

Total = 16.4m
Quality = B
Hackney 6m
Barlaser 1.5m
Boyd-Munce100k
Howson 250k
Conteh 100k
Payero 2m

Total = 9.95m
Quality = B-
Hackney 18m
Barlaser 1m
Howson 0m

Total = 19m
Quality B-
lacks an extra option
WingBrowne 300k
Jones 1m

Total = 1.3m
Quality = D
Olusanya 100k
Jones 5m
Ameobi 500k
McGree 3m

Total = 8.6m
Quality = B-
Sivi 100k
McGree 5m
Jones 3m
Forss 3m

Total = 11.1m
Quality B+
McGree 4m
Silvera 1m
Gilbert 100k
Jones 4m
Forss 4m

Total = 13.1m
Quality = B+
CF and 10sWatmore 1m
Akpom 2m
Assombalonga 2m
Fletcher 1m
Coburn 100k

Total = 6.1m
Quality = B-
Crooks 1.5m
Akpom 2m
Ikpeazu 500k
Coburn 500k
Watmore 1.5m

Total = 6m
Quality = C
Watmore 500k
Akpom 12m
Hoppe 500k
Kavanagh 100k
Finch 100k

Total = 13.2m
Quality = B
Coburn 1.5m
Hoppe 500k
Lath 6m
Azaz 2m

Total = 10m
Quality = B
Total = 45.8m
Quality C
(12-18th in the champo level
Total = 54.75m
Quality = B-
(10-12th quality)
Total = 52.7m
Quality = B
(7th - 12th)
Total = 75.2m
Quality = B+
(borderline play offs)
 
Worth more money but gone backwards on the pitch. I know which one I care more about.
gone backwards in the table because of a ridiculous injury crisis and not spunking a massive wedge of money on loans, something we couldn't afford to do every single year. What we do instead is develop our own talent building asset value and profit, while potentially having high quality players for longer.
 
Looking at the squads over the last 4 seasons, it's been a massive overhaul in playing asset value. I think from where we were 4 years ago we have improved quality in every department, and improved the squad value, and done without building debt, in fact selling Akpom, Tav and Spence has pretty much paid for the overhaul. The progression is there to see,

20/2121/2222/2323/24
GKPears £500k
Stojanovik £500k
Bryn £100k


Total = 1.1m
Quality = D
Lumley 1m
Stojanovic 500k
Brynn 250k
Daniels 500k​

Total = 2.25m
Quality = C
Lumley 500k
Roberts 500k
Daniels 500k
Brynn 500k

Total = 2m
Quality = C
Dieng 5m
Glover 500k
Jones 0
Brynn 1m

Total = 6.5m
Quality = A
(GK department is good enough for auto promotion)
DFFry 6m
McNair 4m
Hall 1m
Wood 100k
Stubbs 100k
Bola 500k
Coulson 500k
Dijksteel 1m
Spence 7m
Fisher 500k



Total = 20.7m
Quality = B
(7-12th in champo)
Fry 6m
McNair 4m
Hall 1m
Wood 100k
Bamba 100k
Bola 500k
Coulson 500k
Taylor 500k
Dijksteel 1m
Spence 7m
Fisher 500k
Peltier 300k

Total = 21.5m
Quality = B
Fry 5m
McNair 3.5m
Lenihan 3m
Clarke 3m
Hall 500k
Bola 300k
Coulson 100k
Dijksteel 500k
Smith 500k
Fisher 0

Total = 16.4m
Quality = B-
(didn't really own viable championship fullbacks)
Fry 3m
McNair 0
Van Den Berg 15m
Clarke 4m
Lenihan 2m
Engel 1m
Bangura 1m
Dijksteel 500k
Smith 100k

Total = 26.6m
Quality = B
play off quality
MFHackney 100k
Saville 1.5m
Wing 1m
Morsy 1m
Howson 1m
Tavernier 12m

Total = 16.6m
Quality = B
Hackney 300k
Payero 2m
Morsy 1m
Howson 1m
Boyd-Munce 100k
Tavernier 12m

Total = 16.4m
Quality = B
Hackney 6m
Barlaser 1.5m
Boyd-Munce100k
Howson 250k
Conteh 100k
Payero 2m

Total = 9.95m
Quality = B-
Hackney 18m
Barlaser 1m
Howson 0m

Total = 19m
Quality B-
lacks an extra option
WingBrowne 300k
Jones 1m

Total = 1.3m
Quality = D
Olusanya 100k
Jones 5m
Ameobi 500k
McGree 3m

Total = 8.6m
Quality = B-
Sivi 100k
McGree 5m
Jones 3m
Forss 3m

Total = 11.1m
Quality B+
McGree 4m
Silvera 1m
Gilbert 100k
Jones 4m
Forss 4m

Total = 13.1m
Quality = B+
CF and 10sWatmore 1m
Akpom 2m
Assombalonga 2m
Fletcher 1m
Coburn 100k

Total = 6.1m
Quality = B-
Crooks 1.5m
Akpom 2m
Ikpeazu 500k
Coburn 500k
Watmore 1.5m

Total = 6m
Quality = C
Watmore 500k
Akpom 12m
Hoppe 500k
Kavanagh 100k
Finch 100k

Total = 13.2m
Quality = B
Coburn 1.5m
Hoppe 500k
Lath 6m
Azaz 2m

Total = 10m
Quality = B
Total = 45.8m
Quality C
(12-18th in the champo level
Total = 54.75m
Quality = B-
(10-12th quality)
Total = 52.7m
Quality = B
(7th - 12th)
Total = 75.2m
Quality = B+
(borderline play offs)

That's a very biased comparison to suit your agenda. You've excluded the loans from the squads and made a prediction on the performance of the team without them to suit your narrative.

So the loans of Bolasie, Roberts, Bettinelli and Kebano were enough to improve us from a 12th-18th placed team to a 10th place team in 20/21??

The loans of Connolly, Sporar, Siliki, Hernandez and Balogan were enough to improve from a 10th-12th placed team to 7th place team in 21/22??

OK in 22/23 our loans probably were enough to improve us from a 7th place team to a 4t place team. I'll accept that..

Would we have been a borderline play off team this season without our loans? Why haven't you amended your quality rating to remove the loans from this seasons predictions?

If loans are improving our squad by an average of 5 places in the league why are you so against them?



Forget all the subjective nonsense above, our actual performance:

20/21 - 10th
21/22 - 7th
22/23 - 4th
23/24 - 7th-10th????

We've gone backwards.
 
That's a very biased comparison to suit your agenda.
I have no agenda, it's no more bias than your analysis of my analysis

You've excluded the loans from the squads
Because we don't on loans....that's entirely my point. A football clubs long term success cannot be based around loans, they are a short term fix to a bigger problem, poor recruitment. You have effectively confirmed my point, loans are not strategic, you can't predict i they will work, they are an operational fix.

and made a prediction on the performance of the team without them to suit your narrative.
I haven't made any performance predictions. I've analysed where we came in those years and looked at the various strengths of the squad.

So the loans of Bolasie, Roberts, Bettinelli and Kebano were enough to improve us from a 12th-18th placed team to a 10th place team in 20/21??
We finished 2 points above 12th, so yes, they had enough impact to lift us just above the overall squad capability.

The loans of Connolly, Sporar, Siliki, Hernandez and Balogan were enough to improve from a 10th-12th placed team to 7th place team in 21/22??
You forget how average all those players were. Those 3 strikers got 13 goals in 50 starts games between them. They did some good stuff, but they also went missing a lot. They were not high enough quality or embedded in the squad and tactics enough to make a major different....thus proving my point, loans, even seemingly high quality ones, often don't work out. They're a high risk, low return strategy for a club.

Would we have been a borderline play off team this season without our loans? Why haven't you amended your quality rating to remove the loans from this seasons predictions?
We have the squad to be borderline, but have had a once in a decade injury crisis.

If loans are improving our squad by an average of 5 places in the league why are you so against them?
I'm not 'against' them, and they're not improving by an average of 5 places. They were highly effective last year, that is uncommon. They are usually moderately effective. They should be used to cover one or two positions max. The last 4 seasons we have loaned:

- Jordan Archer
- Marcus Bettanelli
- Yannick Bolasie
- Neeskens Kobano
- Patrick Roberts
- Folarin Balogun
- Aaron Connelly
- Onel Hernandez
- James Lea Siliki
- Andraz Sporar
- Aaron Ramsey
- Cameron Archer
- Ryan Giles
- Alex Mowatt
- Rodrgio Muniz
- Zack Steffen
- Luke Ayling
- Sam Greenwood
- Lewis O'Brien
- Luke Thomas


For the sake of argument, lets average them out at a conservative estimate of 600k/each. That's £12m we've burnt for pretty much zero gain. On top of that, we've contributed to other clubs increasing their asset value of north of 50m. We've also robbed our own players of game time to potentially increase their value.

The clubs hierarchy thankfully agree with me, not you and with good reason. Loans have a place, but shouldn't be central to a long term improvement strategy.
 
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