Anti vaxers

Uwefuchs said:
I've looked at a couple of pretty robust looking research papers, from reputable sources with huge sample sizes and the research suggests that being vaccinated reduces the chance of catching the virus and reduces the chance of passing it to others.

What would you do?
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I would show them the papers
 
Coluka is about right. Your friends have the right to not be vaccinated and you have the right to not mix with them. With cases being high you may want to postpone the meet up.

Explain why you feel uncomfortable without name calling.

Your wife creates another dimension to the problem. She is also entitled to manage her own risk. Youre wife may decide to meet up whilst you stay at home.

Perhaps suggest something you are comfortable with. Meet outside for a walk and an outdoor coffee.

It's a difficult position to be in and the best advice I can give is do not burn bridges with your friends.
 
Ask them where they going on holidaus abroad...most countries will only accept double jabbed to be on safe side id presume.
 
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ThirdLeg said:
Just interesting stuff! give people more credit, less condescension (generally, not from you), more understanding. Same ***** I always post whenever I do on these topics, i guess.
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sometimes a spade is just a spade though. I don't agree that anti-vaxxers are 'scientifically literate', far from it, they don't seem to believe any data that doesn't fit their preconceptions, and that just isn't science.
 
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The_Tiler said:
I think you should go. As your wife says, respect their decision. It will cause more problems with your wife.
If you go to the football match, supermarket, train or bus etc, you could be sat next to someone who has not been vaccinated.
At some point in our lives, we have to get back to normal. Maybe going to their house will relieve some of that anxiety and you could take a step towards normality.
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Thats my wife's argument, she doesn't want to avoid seeing a close friend for a prolonged period when we could be potentially stood next to an unvaccinated person in a shop/pub..

I get your argument about getting back to normal but I think when cases are sky high its still about managing risk. I know the chance of catching something from those people at that exact time is extremely slim but I feel like there's a bit of principle involved as well.
 
I don’t have a problem per se with those who don’t want to get the vaccine because it is untested and they are not sure of the impacts it may have on their body etc etc. What I do have a problem with is when they actively try and spread disinformation based upon their scientific knowledge that they have picked up from various sites that promote scaremongering.

each to their own is what I say - it’s a personal choice but please don’t preach to me I’m big enough and ugly enough to make my own decisions based upon my own research.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Do you know any? If so how would you react to them?

We are supposed to be meeting my wife's friend and her family later in the week and I've just found out that her and her husband are refusing to get the vaccine.

My first reaction is feeling annoyed about it but my wife says we should respect their decision. They are really nice people, we have always got along really well and we have kids of a similar age.

Apparently they've said that having previously had the virus they are confident that they could fight it off again, also they don't feel that there is enough evidence to indicate that being vaccinated reduces the chances of catching it or passing it on to others. They are both pretty intelligent people, both university educated so I don't think they are selfish or lack the ability to (usually) make informed decisions.

I wondered whether they're right and maybe I've missed something but I've looked at a couple of pretty robust looking research papers, from reputable sources with huge sample sizes and the research suggests that being vaccinated reduces the chance of catching the virus and reduces the chance of passing it to others.

I know it'll come up in conversation and its going to be hard to sit there and bite my tongue. Not only that we've just finished 10 days of isolation so I'm not too excited about the proposition of meeting people who are potentially higher risk than the average family.

What would you do?
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I know one, or one left should I say, he's been too close a friend for too long, for me to ditch him over this, so we just don't talk about it, he's already had covid too.

He won't change his mind, people have tried but I've forgot what his argument is mind, so now I just don't ask, and haven't seen him much, but it can't be because of untested drugs, as he's done loads of those, and still does :unsure:

There would have been quite a few more social media "friends" too, but I just keep cutting people over the years, got rid of most of the nutters pre-pandemic anyway. I still "tolerate" anti-vaxers that I meet in "real life", but I've zero interest in getting to know them, or being around them, to be honest.

I understand those that may not want to vaccinate their kids 12-15, if the kids are young males, as their risk-benefit of a vaccine is lower than girls and anyone older on a sliding scale. But they still also have the net benefit as an age group, by getting vaccinated, as it slows the pandemic and helps other groups, which in turn will help them in return with getting uninterrupted education, better economically etc. Also, the long term implications of catching Covid are far, far higher than those from vaccines, we already know of long covid, but other things could crop up years down the line when confronted with other respiratory diseases.

Totally disagree with anti-vaxers forcing their anti-vax stance on their kids, and they should have to speak to a GP or expert to explain what their reasons are, but ultimately should not be forced.

As for your mates, they may have a uni education, but they seemingly don't understand risk, or reciprocal risk reduction. They're correct that a vaccine might not stop you from getting it (it's not designed to), but it will massively reduce the risk of hospitalisation and death, and it will reduce the risk of passing it on too. Even if it's only reducing it 30%, this has a massive effect on R, and everyone's risk. If you don't like confrontation or can't argue it well, then just say " I don't want to talk about it", me I would probably try and argue it once (when you're both sober).
 
Andy_W said:
Even if it's only reducing it 30%, this has a massive effect on R, and everyone's risk. If you don't like confrontation or can't argue it well, then just say " I don't want to talk about it", me I would probably try and argue it once (when you're both sober)
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Thats my problem with the situation, people are free to put themselves at risk but when their decisions increase the risk to others that's when its frustrating. If we all avoided the vaccine due to what might happen to our bodies years down the line where would we be as a country?

I'm not someone who normally avoids a debate, the easy thing would be to meet them and try not to get into it, but if the topic comes up (which I'm sure it would) I'd find it hard to hold my tongue.
 
FatCat said:
I don’t have a problem per se with those who don’t want to get the vaccine because it is untested and they are not sure of the impacts it may have on their body etc etc.
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It's tested to the same standards as other vaccines
 
Uwefuchs said:
where would we be as a country?
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Russia, where distrust in their government is so endemic that vaccine uptake has been very low. Even though the "Sputnik" vaccine has proven very effective in countries where it has been used. Russia is having to enforce vaccinations for certain professions like teachers.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Thats my wife's argument, she doesn't want to avoid seeing a close friend for a prolonged period when we could be potentially stood next to an unvaccinated person in a shop/pub..

I get your argument about getting back to normal but I think when cases are sky high its still about managing risk. I know the chance of catching something from those people at that exact time is extremely slim but I feel like there's a bit of principle involved as well.
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It's a different situation though. The longer you spend in someones proximity the more likely it would be to transfer the virus. I would definitely be giving known anti vaxxers a swerve for now. Cases are too high, and rising, the risk is far to high. To meet someone who knowingly ignores anti covid measures isn't something I could entertain at the moment. You can't control what the man in the street has done but if you know someone is ignoring anti cvid measures then you should take all steps to avoid at the moment.
 
SmallTown said:
It's a different situation though. The longer you spend in someones proximity the more likely it would be to transfer the virus. I would definitely be giving known anti vaxxers a swerve for now. Cases are too high, and rising, the risk is far to high. To meet someone who knowingly ignores anti covid measures isn't something I could entertain at the moment. You can't control what the man in the street has done but if you know someone is ignoring anti cvid measures then you should take all steps to avoid at the moment.
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Yeah thats kind of my argument really, you make a decision based on the available information at the time. At this moment in time the family in question are higher risk than most other families.
 
riversideparmo said:
agree its selfish not getting the jab but also what if they catch it and get really bad , ambulances / hospital beds / NHS staff time etc etc all taken up
because they decided not to get 2 free jabs :oops:
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They both had covid last year and got very mild symptoms so they don't feel concerned about catching it. I think the argument is about putting a substance in their bodies which is not necessary because their immune systems will be strong enough to deal with the virus.

Thats fine and I kind of agree with that stance, the difference in opinion will be that they're not convinced that being vaccinated offers any reduced risk to others. Which is nonsense of course.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Thats my wife's argument, she doesn't want to avoid seeing a close friend for a prolonged period when we could be potentially stood next to an unvaccinated person in a shop/pub..

I get your argument about getting back to normal but I think when cases are sky high its still about managing risk. I know the chance of catching something from those people at that exact time is extremely slim but I feel like there's a bit of principle involved as well.
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You may have to compromise a little to please your wife. Maybe go round and sit on the garden or something similar. Avoid the subject of covid.
Personally, I would not sit at home stressing about a situation that may not happen. Life is too short.
What ever you decide to do, I hope its the best for you and your wife.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Do you know any? If so how would you react to them?

We are supposed to be meeting my wife's friend and her family later in the week and I've just found out that her and her husband are refusing to get the vaccine.

My first reaction is feeling annoyed about it but my wife says we should respect their decision. They are really nice people, we have always got along really well and we have kids of a similar age.

Apparently they've said that having previously had the virus they are confident that they could fight it off again, also they don't feel that there is enough evidence to indicate that being vaccinated reduces the chances of catching it or passing it on to others. They are both pretty intelligent people, both university educated so I don't think they are selfish or lack the ability to (usually) make informed decisions.

I wondered whether they're right and maybe I've missed something but I've looked at a couple of pretty robust looking research papers, from reputable sources with huge sample sizes and the research suggests that being vaccinated reduces the chance of catching the virus and reduces the chance of passing it to others.

I know it'll come up in conversation and its going to be hard to sit there and bite my tongue. Not only that we've just finished 10 days of isolation so I'm not too excited about the proposition of meeting people who are potentially higher risk than the average family.

What would you do?
Click to expand...
Honestly, I'd stop seeing them.

Certainly until we were well clear of the pandemic but the friendship would probably be ruined by then.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Thats my problem with the situation, people are free to put themselves at risk but when their decisions increase the risk to others that's when its frustrating. If we all avoided the vaccine due to what might happen to our bodies years down the line where would we be as a country?

I'm not someone who normally avoids a debate, the easy thing would be to meet them and try not to get into it, but if the topic comes up (which I'm sure it would) I'd find it hard to hold my tongue.
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Yeah exactly.

The thing is, as the vaccines do not prevent infection in some (but obv do reduce risk, and risk of hospitalisation/ death/ long covid), then it's more the reason to get the vaccine, as it basically means anti-vaxers cannot rely on vaxers to bail them out as the vaxed will not be enough to get herd immunity. They won't see it like that of course.

Anyone not getting the vaccine is getting covid, likely multiples times, that's the way I see it.
 
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