Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

Glover_elbow said:
It only happens when it's your side that fails to win or your Chris wilder
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It's happened multiple times in this competition, with sides that are not england. Happens all the time, and often in cup competitions otherwise Man City would win the domestic cups every single year.
 
It was a funny game. The ref didn't help but I don't think that ultimately cost us over 90 mins as we had a chance to make it 2-2 with Kane's second penalty.

We played very well, as did France. Overall I thought France looks a bit more threatening when they went forward but it was very close between the dies. We kept Mbappe quiet but that obviously left space for Giroud and Griezmann and the former really punished us.

I wasn't really surprised with the result, I have said in the east against the better teams we struggle to score from open play and that was evident tonight. Would be have won in ET? Who knows.

Southgate is a quandary. He had done really well but the QF appear to be about our level for whatever reason. I wouldn't have brought Saka off - he was our biggest threat - and now sure why he brought Grealish on with a few seconds to spare. Has he been flattered by one of the best groups of players we have had for years or has he made them one of the best? And if they are one of the best squads we ever have why aren't we getting to finals?

I thought Southgate would step down after the WC. We'll see what he decides. He's had a good go but would he do any better in the Euros in 2024? And then there is the question of who would replace him? I'm not sure many would be jumping at the chance to manage England.

Well done England, well done Gareth. Maybe stay until 2024 but bring in a new attacking coach. Playing a bit more aggressively might just be the key to unlocking that win.
 
Judging from his comments in interviews since the match, it sounds like he might well resign because of the abuse over the last 18 months.

I hope he doesn't, but I think he can leave with his head held high if he does.
 
TeaCider said:
Judging from his comments in interviews since the match, it sounds like he might well resign because of the abuse over the last 18 months.

I hope he doesn't, but I think he can leave with his head held high if he does.
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You also have to consider where the abuse is coming from. Your average fan knows very little about football. Imagine Brian Cox getting abuse from the crowd in one of his shows. It doesn't happen because the crowd recognize that Cox knows more than they do about cosmology. Folks like Zain claiming to be students of the game. I assume by that he means he watches the odd televised game.
 
MolteniArcore said:
It was a funny game. The ref didn't help but I don't think that ultimately cost us over 90 mins as we had a chance to make it 2-2 with Kane's second penalty.
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Of course it impacted, we should have had 3 penalties, their first goal shouldn't have happened instead we should have been linining up for a free kick in a dangerous position, and the number of late and off the ball fouls should have led to yellow cards for french defenders which would have put them at risk of a red, and thus given more opportunity for Saka and Foden to exploit.

The ref lost his mind in this game and in a game of fine margins such a poor performance is clearly influential. People miss penalties it happens, and yes if Kane hadn't missed we would probably have gone on and won, but that isn't the entirety of the story of how the game developed and was lost.
 
Thought the subs weren't utilised correctly, yet again.

Chasing the game and he didn't bring on Wilson (our best chance of a goal) or Maddison (our best chance of creating a goal).

I don't think I'd part ways with Southgate, but he definitely needs to improve his in-game management.
 
MolteniArcore said:
Southgate is a quandary. He had done really well but the QF appear to be about our level for whatever reason.
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I don' think it is, he's bettered that in 2 competitions recently. Historically it is, but that's a changing.

4 years ago it was a close game with croatia, but they were a better team, with more technically proficient players. Now we were marginally the better team, with equally proficent players to France. This France are even better than Croatia 4 years ago too. We have improved, the winner of this game is favourites to lift the trophy and with stronger refereeing it would have been us.
 
Marvanelli said:
Thought the subs weren't utilised correctly, yet again.

Chasing the game and he didn't bring on Wilson (our best chance of a goal) or Maddison (our best chance of creating a goal).

I don't think I'd part ways with Southgate, but he definitely needs to improve his in-game management.
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Maddison has had about 5 training sessions with these team mates, completely pointless bringing him on. As for Wilson, it was an option but you need to change the formation for multiple players to do that, unless you are suggesting Harry Kane off? Changing formation could just disrupt what was going our way.
 
BoroMart said:
The ref lost his mind in this game and in a game of fine margins such a poor performance is clearly influential. People miss penalties it happens, and yes if Kane hadn't missed we would probably have gone on and won, but that isn't the entirety of the story of how the game developed and was lost.
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I know what you are saying and I probably agree with you in all fairness. Think the result would have been a coin toss though.

After the game I really didn't want to blame the ref. He was dire but it is easy to just blame others. I don't blame Kane either.

For me, you need to score from open play against the top teams to win the competition. We didn't. France did it twice. We played really well but it was not to be. We need to look at why we didn't, learn and improve. Gareth needs to make up his mind and do whatever is best for him.
 
BoroMart said:
Maddison has had about 5 training sessions with these team mates, completely pointless bringing him on. As for Wilson, it was an option but you need to change the formation for multiple players to do that, unless you are suggesting Harry Kane off? Changing formation could just disrupt what was going our way.
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Not a lot was going our way after the penalty though.

Keep Kane on, but sacrifice a midfielder for Wilson.

Take a look at Netherlands the day before, they rolled the dice, threw Weghorst on and look what happened.

We needed more threat up top.
 
MolteniArcore said:
I know what you are saying and I probably agree with you in all fairness. Think the result would have been a coin toss though.
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Maybe, but I watched the first half last night and just how much that ref got wrong and let the french get away with. It would always be a tight match between probably the two best teams in the competition, I think we had the better of it in the end, a third penalty award for us would have at least seen it go to pens, and maybe a win for us in extra time as we were dominating late on
 
Marvanelli said:
Keep Kane on, but sacrifice a midfielder for Wilson.
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but then you don't have the midfield numbers to play through the thirds, you have to lump it longer, and we don't play that way and to be honest you rarely break down a good team like France by hitting it more direct. It's meat and drink to any decent defenders.
 
BoroMart said:
but then you don't have the midfield numbers to play through the thirds, you have to lump it longer, and we don't play that way and to be honest you rarely break down a good team like France by hitting it more direct. It's meat and drink to any decent defenders.
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But we needed to change it as it wasn't working.

Over the whole game we didn't create a lot of chances. Certainly not enough anyways.

We needed to roll the dice.

It's KO football. Time is precious.

And even with 2 midfielders on the pitch, we had enough to play through the thirds.

Are you suggesting teams who play 4-4-2 can't play through the thirds and create chances?
 
Marvanelli said:
But we needed to change it as it wasn't working.
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I don't agree we had control

Marvanelli said:
Over the whole game we didn't create a lot of chances. Certainly not enough anyways.
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You are playing the world champs, there aren't going to be 20 opportunities. We did create plenty though we created 3 pens, multiple free kicks on the edge of the box, a bellingham chance and a kane chance from the edge of the box, a Kane one-vs-one, a Maguire header against the post, stones was inches from another. The opportunities were there.
 
BoroMart said:
I don't agree we had control
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Spain had pretty much full control against Morocco.

Control doesn't mean chances will come.

BoroMart said:
You are playing the world champs, there aren't going to be 20 opportunities. We did create plenty though we created 3 pens, multiple free kicks on the edge of the box, a bellingham chance and a kane chance from the edge of the box, a Kane one-vs-one, a Maguire header against the post, stones was inches from another. The opportunities were there.
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I never said we neede 20 chances.
FK's on the edge of the box, Bellingham's chance, Kane's chance and Maguire's header aren't big chances.

Remember, this is a French team who had not kept a single clean sheet so far in this tournament and played the likes of Tunisia, Australia and Poland! Their defence isn't great and yet we were restricted to long distance shots or hoping for a few penalties in the game. That's not good enough.

Therefore, we had to change it. It might be nice having the ball all the time, but if you're not going to use the ball to your advantage, then it's pointless.

We needed an extra body up top to cause their defence more problems. Upamecano & Hernandez are bang average defenders at that elite level....as was shown with the penalty from Theo (and the foul that should've been given on Saka before the first goal).

Southgate's inability to change the game from the bench was his downfall, and not for the first time.
 
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