Is Tyson Fury the biggest fraud in boxing?

Quicksilvera said:
I wouldn’t judge fury from the Ngannou fight, it was more staged than an episode of coronation street.

He’s still the best boxer in the world.
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If you rephrased this to best heavyweight I could take the comment seriously. It would still be debatable but it would be less ridiculous.
He wouldn't even be in my top 10 current p4p boxers.

Fury has masses of talent. No doubt. But he hasn't shown it enough and hasn't fought enough top fighters to be considered a great. He's shown plenty of vulnerabilities through his career as well as showing a lot of boxing skill.
 
B_G said:
If you rephrased this to best heavyweight I could take the comment seriously. It would still be debatable but it would be less ridiculous.
He wouldn't even be in my top 10 current p4p boxers.

Fury has masses of talent. No doubt. But he hasn't shown it enough and hasn't fought enough top fighters to be considered a great. He's shown plenty of vulnerabilities through his career as well as showing a lot of boxing skill.
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To be a heavyweight boxer and undefeated after 34 professional fights is no mean feat.

He will go down as an all time great.
 
Quicksilvera said:
To be a heavyweight boxer and undefeated after 34 professional fights is no mean feat.

He will go down as an all time great.
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Being undefeated has been as much down to 'luck' as anything else.

He lost his first fight with John McDermott, he could easily have been stopped against Otto Wallin with the cut, he could have been counted out against Wilder and the fact he was appalling last week against a guy in his first fight has meant he's had more than a fair share of luck to remain unbeaten.

Add the farce of pulling out of fights or messing about with contracts with Usyk and AJ, along with fighting Chisora time and again means he's actually some distance from being an all time great IMHO.
 
Lennox Lewis - 13 Title Defences + Undisputed
Vitali Klitchco - 12 Title Defences
Vladimir Klitchco - 23 Title Defences
Muhammed Ali - 19 Title Defences
Larry Holmes - 20 Title Defences
Holyfield - 8 Titles Defences (he fought most of his career at cruiserweight)
Mike Tyson - 10 Title Defences

Tyson Fury - 3 Title Defences

Even AJ has 7 title Defences...

Fury is not an all time great. He hasn't done anywhere near enough to be mentioned in the same breath as any of that top list of fighters. It's a shame because he potentially had the talent if he applied himself. But money is more important to him than legacy.
 
B_G said:
Lennox Lewis - 13 Title Defences + Undisputed
Vitali Klitchco - 12 Title Defences
Vladimir Klitchco - 23 Title Defences
Muhammed Ali - 19 Title Defences
Larry Holmes - 20 Title Defences
Holyfield - 8 Titles Defences (he fought most of his career at cruiserweight)
Mike Tyson - 10 Title Defences

Tyson Fury - 3 Title Defences

Even AJ has 7 title Defences...

Fury is not an all time great. He hasn't done anywhere near enough to be mentioned in the same breath as any of that top list of fighters. It's a shame because he potentially had the talent if he applied himself. But money is more important to him than legacy.
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Yeah you can't put him in that list, I've defended his resume on here in the past but you can't really defend him for the decisions he's made in the last 18 months.

Even if you believe everything that Fury and Warren come out with, such as people avoiding him you don't then go and take the Ngannou fight and stink the place out.

Not only that Fury has embarrassed himself lately with some of the daft stuff he comes out with. A few years ago he turned himself from the bad guy in this country to the peoples champion, I think the casual fan warmed to him with the comeback story but now he's undoing all that with the way he's going about things. Threatening to ban talksport from his fights saying he won't fight Joshua etc just makes him look stupid. I think with Fury he doesn't put a lot of thought into the things he comes out and just shoots from the hip but he's turning himself from a potential generational fighter to someone who is remembered for avoiding the big fights.

I think if Fury has a full 12 week training camp, if he's fit and motivated he beats Usyk. Then he needs to beat Joshua to go down as the undoubted best fighter of his generation. Even with a lack of world Title fights I'd put him above Wladimir Klitschko in an all time heavyweight ranking if he beats those two. Someone like Wlad had good wins but he didn't beat a lot of elite fighters.

The problem for Fury is that even though he'd likely be the favourite in Usyk and Joshua fights if he's starting to get over the hill he'll become very vulnerable in the ring very quickly. We saw against Ngannou and earlier in his career that if he's not at 100% he can be very beatable. I always thought he was a level above Joshua but if he's lost 10% of his reflexes or timing he could get steamrollered by AJ.

The weight issues he's had plus the drug and alcohol abuse will catch up with him eventually, for Fury's sake I think he needs to get in the ring and beat Usyk and Joshua sooner rather than later. The longer he leaves it the less chance he has of beating them IMO.
 
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Uwefuchs said:
I think if Fury has a full 12 week training camp, if he's fit and motivated he beats Usyk. Then he needs to beat Joshua to go down as the undoubted best fighter of his generation.
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Agree with this. Well I think he would be favourite. Not a walkover by any means though. Like you said in your post though, the biggest question now is can he get back to peak shape. His comeback story was amazing but he was still in his 20s. He's 34 and his body has taken a lot of abuse over the years.

Uwefuchs said:
Even with a lack of world Title fights I'd put him above Wladimir Klitschko in an all time heavyweight ranking if he beats those two. Someone like Wlad had good wins but he didn't beat a lot of elite fighters.
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Talent wise I think Fury is better than both of the Kitschkos but could he win 10 title fights? Does he have the consistency required to win 10 title fights? When you fight 10 times at that level you will meet different styles and different questions and you have to find ways to win. Could Fury have done this? We don't know. He's had close calls against lesser fighters in his career.

I just can't put Fury towards the top of any all time great list based on what he has achieved. It is fine people saying that he could have done this and could have done that, he would beat Usyk and he would beat AJ but it's all subjective. The other guys mentioned have done it.
 
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B_G said:
Agree with this. Well I think he would be favourite. Not a walkover by any means though. Like you said in your post though, the biggest question now is can he get back to peak shape. His comeback story was amazing but he was still in his 20s. He's 34 and his body has taken a lot of abuse over the years.


Talent wise I think Fury is better than both of the Kitschkos but could he win 10 title fights? Does he have the consistency required to win 10 title fights? When you fight 10 times at that level you will meet different styles and different questions and you have to find ways to win. Could Fury have done this? We don't know. He's had close calls against lesser fighters in his career.

I just can't put Fury towards the top of any all time great list based on what he has achieved. It is fine saying people saying that he could have done this and could have done that, he would beat Usyk and he would beat AJ but it's all subjective. The other guys mentioned have done it.
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These things are always subjective though, it's like saying could modern day players survive football in the 70s with tough tackling and muddy pitches. I'm sure Fury would have beaten the majority of people on Wlad's resume with ease, you're right to say that Fury won't have had the longevity but then he'll probably end up with bigger wins on his record. It's like comparing apples and oranges really.

If Fury beats Usyk and Joshua he's above the Klitschko's for me and not far behind the likes of Lewis. You can pick holes in a lot of fighters resumes but I'd place Fury fairly high for the quality of his wins rather than quantity (if he cleans out the division), but I appreciate why some people would rank the likes of Wlad higher if you value number of title Defences and longevity.
 
Uwefuchs said:
These things are always subjective though, it's like saying could modern day players survive football in the 70s with tough tackling and muddy pitches. I'm sure Fury would have beaten the majority of people on Wlad's resume with ease, you're right to say that Fury won't have had the longevity but then he'll probably end up with bigger wins on his record. It's like comparing apples and oranges really.

If Fury beats Usyk and Joshua he's above the Klitschko's for me and not far behind the likes of Lewis. You can pick holes in a lot of fighters resumes but I'd place Fury fairly high for the quality of his wins rather than quantity (if he cleans out the division), but I appreciate why some people would rank the likes of Wlad higher if you value number of title Defences and longevity.
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If Fury beats Usyk and Fury then I would agree with you. Its not all about quantity of defences. Quality of wins is obviously a massive factor as well. Its hard to really boast too highly about Fury's quality of wins really though isn't it. 2 big scalps in VK and Wilder. If he added Usyk and AJ he's beaten everyone about. He can't really do more than that.
 
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From Usyk’s Instagram. Fight has been postponed until early 2024. Usyk hopes for February but date will be announced soon.

There was nothing in the article about him thinking Fury is ducking, he just quips how he took a knock so is licking his wounds.

Sounds positive.


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Looks like there is a presser about the Usyk fight today - the thing on instagram was in US time but I think it is in London at 6pm.
 
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