Just looking back at Forss strike

I think he's (Forss) not been up front because he's had some injury trouble, so putting him as a lone striker might be asking a lot, but it's also as we have had less options on the right.

With Jones being in good form, and out injured, I expect that the right spot would be Jones's and Forss could then go up front, if we had everyone fit (barring Latte Lath), but with Jones out and Forss still on his way back then I can understand why he's being played on the right. We've not had them both fit, since Jones' has been back in form etc. Forss is effectively there as we have no real other good options there, or Carrick doesn't see it that way. He might change his mind now after that goal, but he will know what he can do, he sees that every day in training or when they're analysing players etc.

I think Carrick tries to fit his best players into the team, regardless of position, rather than picking the best person for a position, I would do it this way too, as I think you need to play your best players, and good players can adapt. They can both be the same thing mind, if for example you have a striker who is better as a right side option, than any of the right side options available.

It depends which way you prioritise fitting players into that role too, most would think the Striker would be the first position to pick your best option in, but in systems where certain roles are dual role, then they have to be a priority. All wide positions these days in modern formations tend to be dual role, for teams who are top half and think they can win any game.

The other way to do it would be to put Greenwood on the right, but Carrick may see that as less suitable as he probably sees the striker a as a role where people link in an out, which Greenwood seems a fair option for. Or he just doesn't think Greenwood could play on the right of a three. I can understand that, as Greenwood seems more suitable to being central, and central only. Even when he plays on the left, he cuts into the centre anyway, as it's a more natural position for him, and it's his strong side, being right footed. Putting him on the right, coming in on his left won't be as effective, it's a waste of him being a pretty good striker of the ball. and as a central player he's not going to want to be going round the outside etc.

Some players are crap at getting themselves into the right positions to score, when played as a striker, but as they don't lose the finishing ability, they often need to go into a position where they will get more natural chances. It worked with Chuba, he was played supposedly out of position, but found himself getting a lot of chances with later arrivals into the box. When he was centre forward and man marked by centre backs he didn't do as well, maybe they think the same as for Forss. They thought that with Stuani too when we had him, getting the chances as a later arrival into the box, but although Stuani got goals there, it was clearly a mistake, since what he has proven afterwards as a striker.
 
We've only had two goals from a player starting as a striker for us in our last 12 home games, and we lost both those games to boot.
We're barely scoring at home as is.
Exactly. So don't move the player who does look like getting goals. Leave him exactly where he is!
Leave your strongest players in their strongest positions and fill the gaps around them with the best suited players.

Same can be said for Hackney. Get him back in his strongest position. He looks half the player when he's played out of position.
 
Exactly. So don't move the player who does look like getting goals. Leave him exactly where he is!
Leave your strongest players in their strongest positions and fill the gaps around them with the best suited players.

Same can be said for Hackney. Get him back in his strongest position. He looks half the player when he's played out of position.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, because I don't see it that way.

I think Forss is the best suited available player to the position we've struggled most with this season, I don't think it's essential he plays wide.
We had Jones playing very well on the right whilst Forss was injured, and our striking options were still struggling to make an impact.
Even with Jones out injured, we have options for wide players, we have next to none for strikers.
 
I think Carrick tries to fit his best players into the team, regardless of position, rather than picking the best person for a position, I would do it this way too, as I think you need to play your best players, and good players can adapt.
I agree with trying to get your best players on the pitch but our strongest players should play their strongest positions. Fit the other players round them.

When these players are fit. they should play. Fit the other available players around them

-----------Dieng-----------

Ayling--Fry---VDB---?????

------????---Hackney------

Forss----????-------McGree

-----------????-------------
 
I'm hoping Forss was playing wide at the weekend because Jones was out and not because Carrick thinks he's unable to play in the middle and is stubbornly refusing to change his mind. Forss is clearly a different striker to Coburn so if you want someone up there to do the hold-up play and bring players in then he's probably not the man for the job but he can do what Lath does and he does it with far more composure and better technique. If it's a choice between Coburn and Forss then the team we are playing and the way we want to play probably dictates which one is chosen but if it's between Forss and Lath I don't see much difference. If it's between Forss and Slivera/Greenwood/Rogers/Crooks or whoever else has played there this season then it's a no brainer for me.
 
I think some excellent points made.
Our best front 4 last season was when Ramsey played left, Forss right, Akpom 10 behind Archer.
But sadly we don't have 3 of them now.

Both Forss and Jones offer protection to a RB and work hard. Forss is far more productive than Jones.
McGree would start ahead of Greenwood for me and I like Greenwood, but neither offer huge protection for a left back who can't function without it.
They appear to have signed Azaz for 10, but time will tell.
Coburn is obviously not right and Lath is injured and decidedly average.

I'd like a quality striker and a quality 10 to finally replace Archer and Akpom.
In the meantime given the injuries, I'd try Forss at CF, Jones right, Greenwood left and McGree 10.
 
I agree with trying to get your best players on the pitch but our strongest players should play their strongest positions. Fit the other players round them.

When these players are fit. they should play. Fit the other available players around them

-----------Dieng-----------

Ayling--Fry---VDB---?????

------????---Hackney------

Forss----????-------McGree

-----------????-------------
I agree with that, but not in all scenarios. For example if that means you yet 8/10 one position and 6/10 another, then that may be worse than 7/10 in two positions, if that then also effects the rest of how the team play (in a negative way). If a good player playing out of position helps the rest of the team go up a notch, then it can be well worth it.

I think if Jones is fit, and Lathe out, then Jones goes right and Forss up front. I'd then have McGree left and Greenwood in the middle. I'd have Hackney and Barlaser behind, which leaves Howson as a good sub for those two key positions also, which is massively important I think.

With everyone fit and available it becomes harder, but in a good way, but we've not been anywhere near having everyone fit an available all season, we've not even come close I don't think. To me we've always been at least 3 players away from what could be considered our strongest side, if everyone was fit/ on form. I think we've been unlucky with that, more than most years, but it's hitting us hard, especially when we need to be relying on subs/ squad etc.
 
Forss has just become our joint top scorer and he's missed most of the season.
All of our strikers have missed big chunks of the season, and if Forss doesn't notch in the next couple of games he'll have similar figures to the others

Coburn's figures are dipping as he stands in carrying an injury while we go through games with a patched up side.

I actually thought Greenwood made the most of his chance and played the front role well, unlucky not to score himself and had a big involvement in the Azaz chance, which he should have buried.
 
I think some excellent points made.
Our best front 4 last season was when Ramsey played left, Forss right, Akpom 10 behind Archer.
But sadly we don't have 3 of them now.

Both Forss and Jones offer protection to a RB and work hard. Forss is far more productive than Jones.
McGree would start ahead of Greenwood for me and I like Greenwood, but neither offer huge protection for a left back who can't function without it.
They appear to have signed Azaz for 10, but time will tell.
Coburn is obviously not right and Lath is injured and decidedly average.

I'd like a quality striker and a quality 10 to finally replace Archer and Akpom.
In the meantime given the injuries, I'd try Forss at CF, Jones right, Greenwood left and McGree 10.
Yup, we lost a 30 goal striker and a guy who would have also been on course for 30 had he been here all season, it's hard to not miss that, considering we never had one player score at 20 a season for like 30 years. The guy who wasn't even part of those two is now being talked as like he could do something comparable, and it's a tough ask.

Forss is a cracking finisher, but when we play him up top he gets less involved, less chances, less goals and less assists, it's no good being a good finisher if you're not often in the right place to get that chance etc. To me he looks more of a striker who would be optimum in a front two, but we don't play that way, like most teams don't.

He's like the opposite of Lathe, he's not as good a finisher, but he's good at making his own chances, or getting chances, if we actually create something.

So, to me, having Forss on the right was a good option when we had some decent strikers as it beefs up the total goals/ assists possibilities etc. It made further sense when Jones was out of form. I don't think it would make much sense having him on the right, if it meant having Coburn up front for example (who isn't good enough to play in a play off team), or if Jones was fit (who was really on form).

I would agree with Forss at CF, Jones right, Greenwood left and McGree 10, but we've not had that option all year, hopefully it's not too far away, but may be a while if it's Jones' hamstring. They're usually 6-8 weeks, and it's only been 3 I think?
 
I agree with trying to get your best players on the pitch but our strongest players should play their strongest positions. Fit the other players round them.

When these players are fit. they should play. Fit the other available players around them

-----------Dieng-----------

Ayling--Fry---VDB---?????

------????---Hackney------

Forss----????-------McGree

-----------????-------------
Jones would also be a nailed on starter for me rather than a ????.
 
Jones would also be a nailed on starter for me rather than a ????.
I think Forss should start in front of Jones in that RF position every game that he's fit. Jones has been our least productive player in those front 4 positions in terms of goals + assists. This isn't an anti Jones post and I think stats only tell half a story. I do like him and think he offers some qualities that none of our other players do and is useful, I just don't see him as a stand out, must play player.

Goals + Assists / 90 mins

Forss - 1.27
Rogers - 0.55
Coburn - 0.54
Crooks - 0.53
Greenwood - 0.48
Lath - 0.47
McGree - 0.45
Silvera - 0.40
Jones - 0.34
Azaz - 0.00 (0.61 for Plymouth)
 
I think Forss should start in front of Jones in that RF position every game that he's fit. Jones has been our least productive player in those front 4 positions in terms of goals + assists. This isn't an anti Jones post and I think stats only tell half a story. I do like him and think he offers some qualities that none of our other players do and is useful, I just don't see him as a stand out, must play player.

Goals + Assists / 90 mins

Forss - 1.27
Rogers - 0.55
Coburn - 0.54
Crooks - 0.53
Greenwood - 0.48
Lath - 0.47
McGree - 0.45
Silvera - 0.40
Jones - 0.34
Azaz - 0.00 (0.61 for Plymouth)
I dunno, Jones just always seems more of a threat, than any of our players and other teams might see that too, so they double up on him or cover him more, gives him less chances and the others in the side at the time should benefit from that.
 
I dunno, Jones just always seems more of a threat, than any of our players and other teams might see that too, so they double up on him or cover him more, gives him less chances and the others in the side at the time should benefit from that.
He is a threat. He does get chances. He does change the way teams defend against us. Agree with all of those points.
But he's also a bit wasteful. But let's face it, if he was more clinical and had better end product then he wouldn't be a £3-5m Championship player. He would be a £15-20m Premier League player.

He's a great player to have in the squad and is very useful, I'm not saying he's not good enough because I think he is. I just prefer Forss on the right and I'd be more tempted to leave him there. I'd play McGree on the left.

And I would pick any 2 from to fill the no10 and Striker role depending on availability/form.

Azaz
Crooks
Greenwood
Coburn
Lath
 
I think Jones offers something a little different to Forss on the right in that he has genuine pace which is quite difficult to defend against sometimes - he’s probably slightly better in the defensive aspect as well. I think it’s worth trying Forss as the man in the centre of the forward line to see if he can be effective there for us. It would be annoying if he leaves and goes on to become a goal scoring legend somewhere else like Stuani did at Girona
 
Just one more point as I think I've made my opinion clear and pointless repeating it over and over again.
Forss did play half a dozen games as the lead striker when Carrick first came in.

He scored 2 goals in 6 matches as a striker. One of which was a penalty. So 1 from 6 in open play. We won 4, drew 1 and lost 1 of those games. Scoring 13 goals in these matches so it wasn't like we were struggling.

Then Carrick swapped him to the right. He scored 4 goals from the next 7 from the right before he was dropped out of the team for Ramsey.
 
His head must have been in the bin with Wilders 'development player' garbage about him though in those first few matches. He might be more effective now that he has some confidence back.
 
I'd like Lath to start when he's back fit again. He'd scored 3 goals in 4 games just before getting injured, a possible sign that he was beginning to hit his stride.

For me Forss and Jones should be battling it out for the RW position when we have a fully fit squad.
 
I'd like Lath to start when he's back fit again. He'd scored 3 goals in 4 games just before getting injured, a possible sign that he was beginning to hit his stride.

For me Forss and Jones should be battling it out for the RW position when we have a fully fit squad.
I’d put money on Forss out scoring Lath if he was played up front
 
One thing I would like to know about the goal is who thought it was a good idea to set Greenwood up for a strike with his ‘wrong’ foot from 25 yards?
 
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