TheWolfman
Well-known member
Theres probably loads of links to highlights of these large number errors where he has directly contributed to us conceding goals. Sure they are easy to post up
Maddo constantly criticising Engel
- Thread starter davidmills
- Start date
Theres probably loads of links to highlights of these large number errors where he has directly contributed to us conceding goals. Sure they are easy to post up
He's the only player who's been regularly taken in and out of the team all season despite being fit. Carrick tends to stick with his first choice core of players unless they get injured.
Engel has sat on the bench plenty of times this season. It's just that Bangura hasn't been able to stay fit and Thomas has been underwhelming. He doesn't seem to be an automatic pick for Carrick like other first team players are.
Hopefully we'll sign another left back.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
The half witted footballer contribution has brought down the standard of commentary across live media.
Are these facts, or opinion?
He's played more minutes than any other player in the team.
12 times in the league - and never more than twice consecutively.
Engel took his place back (after his own knock) on the 1st Jan vs. Coventry.... before Bangura got injured on the 9th Jan vs. Chelsea.
Despite playing more games and more minutes than all of those first team players?
As backup to Engel next season?
He's played more minutes than any other player in the team.
12 times in the league - and never more than twice consecutively.
Engel took his place back (after his own knock) on the 1st Jan vs. Coventry.... before Bangura got injured on the 9th Jan vs. Chelsea.
Despite playing more games and more minutes than all of those first team players?
As backup to Engel next season?
He's played the most because hes one of the few players who hasnt been injured. He's also sat on the bench more than any other first team player. 28 starts and on the bench 12 times from 40 available.
How many other first players have sat on the bench that many times when they've been fit?
Absolutely pointless comparing playing time with other first team players because as the other thread points out, no one else has been fit all season. Barlaser also has 25 starts this season despite clearly being down the pecking order.
We can argue about it all day but we will see come the end of August.
How many other first players have sat on the bench that many times when they've been fit?
Absolutely pointless comparing playing time with other first team players because as the other thread points out, no one else has been fit all season. Barlaser also has 25 starts this season despite clearly being down the pecking order.
We can argue about it all day but we will see come the end of August.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree. You clearly don't like Engel - but Carrick clearly does - and that's what really matters.
The stats are not wrong - no matter how much you seem to really want them to be.
(At least) 2 of Engel's games on the bench were through injury too - He took a knock to the foot in Sept (O'Brien played at LB) - but that doesn't fit the narrative.
indeedido
Well-known member
No it only fits yours of course
Despite leaving him out for Thomas on multiple occasions. It's not clear.
Engel was dropped when O'Brien played. He had been hooked off at half time the match prior for the worst performance I have ever seen from any Boro player in my lifetime.
Like I say, the summer window will tell us.
TeaCider
Well-known member
We're never going to know if players are dropped or whether they're being rested because Carrick rarely reveals the full details about player fitness.
But the rumour was that Engel has been struggling with a knock as of late and was given the time to recover in the more forgiving home fixtures against Sheff Wed and Swansea.
If Carrick really didn't rate him, he wouldn't have brought him back in for Hull and Ipswich.
But the rumour was that Engel has been struggling with a knock as of late and was given the time to recover in the more forgiving home fixtures against Sheff Wed and Swansea.
If Carrick really didn't rate him, he wouldn't have brought him back in for Hull and Ipswich.
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5 times compared to the 10 times he's been chosen ahead of a fully fit Thomas would make Engel first choice.
You might be 100% right -- He might have been "hooked off" -- but he might have still been injured -- none of us fans really know.
Engel taking a knock in September doesn't just fit my narrative.... It's a confirmed fact from an interview with Carrick when he was questioned why Engel missed the Blackburn game.
Bangura played that game not O'Brien so that caused confusion. When O'Brien played it was directly after the Sheff Wed game when he was absolutely shyte. He had been pretty terrible in every game he'd played up until that point.
He probably is first choice between him and Thomas but the fact he's tried Thomas 5 times tells me he's not totally convinced on Engel. Picking between the two of them is like choosing between a punch in the nuts or a poke in the eye. Neither of them have been good enough.
He hasn't given Dijksteel 5 games in front of Ayling.
He hasn't given Barlaser 5 games in front of Howson or Hackney.
He doesn't just randomly rotate players Carrick. He never has done since he's been here. If we don't sign a Left Back and Engel is playing in front of Bangura next season I'll dig this thread out and admit that I was wrong.
100% agree - Engel was terrible in his first few games.
However, nobody knows why he was taken off on 45 mins vs. West Brom or why he was benched for two games... It's just a fact that he was injured for the game previous.
You might be right, he might have been out of favour, but the reason he started on the bench could also have been because he wasn't fully fit.
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Overall point is those first few games seem to have stuck in a lot of fans minds and that's the brush Engel has been painted with for the entire season.
Maddo also seems to always had negative comments to say, and the Gazette also give him a low match rating too...
Eg. Southampton 1 - 1 Middlesbrough in March. The Gazette rated Engel a 5 - the worst player on the pitch.
WhoScored rated him a 8.15 and Sofascore rated him the best player on the pitch at 8.5 (https://www.sofascore.com/southampton-middlesbrough/LsV#id:11372686)
How can so many people see one player SO differently?
I didn't see that match so I'm not going to comment on that match specifically but Whoscored and Sofascore are both purely statistic based ratings.
You could make 30 successful passes and 3 unsuccessful passes in really bad areas that could have cost us. The statistic based ratings will show a 91% pass completion rate and score that player well. Someone rating the player objectively will mark that player down significantly. Statistic based sites don't register things like poor positioning or failure to pressure an attacking player. Statistics are useful but aren't perfect.
Barlaser often scores well on statistic based sites but when watching him play you can see his failures that won't be picked up. Like his total inability to tackle or physically impose himself.
I didn't see the game like I said.
But from quickly checking the payer stats for that match I can see that Engel had a pass completion rating of 70.6% and he made 15 unsuccessful passes which was the most on the pitch for either team. Out of those 15 misplaced passes, 6 of them were short passes which is defined by a pass shorter than 10 yards. Nobody else on the pitch misplaced that many short passes. Lewis O'Brien misplaced 3 short passes and Ayling misplaced 2. Short passes are usually more eye catching as it is generally a simple pass that has been sloppy.
His 100% dribble success, was one dribble.
From those 66 touches, he gave the ball away at least 15 times.
From watching the highlights, I can see that although Howson makes an initial error with the clearance, Engel's defending afterwards is pitiful. He stands right off Armstrong, makes himself as small as humanly possible and does nothing to make things difficult for him. He's more concerned about getting his hands behind is back than he is about getting a block in.
He was the defender marking Armstrong for the goal we conceded.
The reason fans don't seem to rate him is because the small number of negatives or mistakes are very obvious/easy to see (like marking Armstrong for the goal).
vs. the very large number of positives (based on actual stats) are the boring ones that nobody really notices in-game.
