Mandatory Jabs for NHS workers

motownjunk said:
Frontline staff already have to have hepatitis C vaccination don't they.
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I think there is policy across the NHS for various procedures. Not by law, but managed by local policy.

If i was part of that mandate and against/ opposed to vaccines, I suspect I would be going on long term sickness in April.
 
Nurses and Drs who don’t believe in medical science should be ashamed. As someone mentioned above, most of the unvaccinated health care wirkers won’t be frontline workers.

it’s mandatory where im working abroad. They want to minimise medical issues. Common sense.

I also learned this morning that a former work colleague has died from covid infection complications.
 
Laughing said:
Which again doesn't address the any of the points I made. there is little point in a discussion when the issues are not addressed.
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I am not trying to address any of the points you have made. Being treated by a Doctor who doesnt believe in vaccines is like flying on a plane with a Pilot who doesn't agree with all of the safety protocols.

There are just some jobs where an individuals "right" to express themselves at work is outranked by the safety needs of the many.

If they dont like it, they can f*&k right off, just like I can if I dont agree with any of the requirements my employer places on me in my terms and conditions of employment.

Freedom of choice is not freedom of consequences.
 
Billy69_uk said:
I am not trying to address any of the points you have made. Being treated by a Doctor who doesnt believe in vaccines is like flying on a plane with a Pilot who doesn't agree with all of the safety protocols.

There are just some jobs where an individuals "right" to express themselves at work is outranked by the safety needs of the many.

If they dont like it, they can f*&k right off, just like I can if I dont agree with any of the requirements my employer places on me in my terms and conditions of employment.

Freedom of choice is not freedom of consequences.
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If the policy was : Anyone entering the profession has to be fully vaccinated against a, b, and c I would be fully in favour of that.

Imposing a new restriction risks people leaving the profession, telling them to feck right off, doesn't improve the level of healthcare we have right now and would kill people. If your horse is high enough, you probably won't catch disease so a broken health service is less likely to effect you, I suppose.

There is no joined up thinking in the statements being made by those in favour of this as legislation, nor any recognition of the work done in the past..
 
Laughing said:
If only 5% of NHS workers choose not to and leave their job, we are 65,000 highly trained professional's down and people die. Still think this is a good idea?
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Just to keep my toe in the water I spoke to an administrator connected to the Liaison and Diversion Service last week, who said that 40% of vacancies remain unfilled and the shortage of new nurses [including those who used to come to work from abroad - Pre Brexit] - and with older experience staff leaving in droves after covid - they simply cannot provide a 24/7 service! Managers are suggesting staff lone - work or the hours offered are reduced. But that isnt possible - because demand has more than doubled since post - lockdown. Local Wards are operating on levels below those suggested by NICE Guidlines, which puts patients at serious risk and untrained staff filling in for qualified clinicians.
Flippin disaster which is already happening.:mad:(n)
And that "thing" ponces around a hospital posing for the cameras with no mask and behaving like the Skegness "Jolly Fisherman". Those barstewards dont give a schit about the many and of that there is no doubt.
 
Man on street calls medical professional whom has been through years of training an idiot because they don't follow their line of thought 😂

I bet you'd all still want that person to save your life if they were the only ones that could.
 
NYboro said:
That's fair enough and I wasn't disparaging them - it would be better if they were properly paid for what they do and had further medical training than just first aid......
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Didn't think you would be NY. You've never come across that way, although unfortunately there are people in this country, a minority hopefully, who see carers as slaves.
 
Randy said:
Didn't think you would be NY. You've never come across that way, although unfortunately there are people in this country, a minority hopefully, who see carers as slaves.
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I notice some of the language used earlier too, something like 'ten a penny' workers. Absolutely no respect for people doing essential work and receiving a pittance.

I'd question any front line worker refusing to be vaccinated, their duty is to protect as much as it is to treat.
 
Randy said:
Didn't think you would be NY. You've never come across that way, although unfortunately there are people in this country, a minority hopefully, who see carers as slaves.
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Agreed Randy - particularly those who provide basic care to those in the community.

"Care Workers" / "Support Workers" are often the least trained, most willing, lowest paid jobs and more vital than many paid a lot more.
More often than not they provide intimate care and essential services like shopping.

They are frequently the only person those cared-for [patients] see each day. Older and physically disabled people are more often than not, very isolated.

The Support Worker is the ears and eyes of a very disjointed broken private system - the only lifeline.
Its thought of as a "bin-job"!

There is no natural career - progression or funds to support education and training [for child care, for instance].
Carers are considered "arz - wipers" - the lowest of the low.

Private vultures expect carers to rush around to provide minimal care - at greatest profit - mostly paid out of public Adult Social Care Budgets.
The vast majority are women with families - which are scraping to get by - with large numbers having to claim Universal Credit to supplement their minimum wage income.

Its disgusting - and the way the service is supervised means that there are frequent incidents of bad practice and neglect - which go undetected or rectified until they seriously impact on the patients health and wellbeing.

Someone close - up until this year - was paying for Carers three times a day - through Adult Social Care. They were given 15 minutes each time to assist toileting / bathing / ensuring the kitchen and food prep areas were clean and change the bedding.

It was found that the "carers" were in fact students working for an agency, with no formal training - who would pull back the quilt and open the bedroom window to dry out soiled bed sheets!

The person being "cared" for would often experience enuresis and encopresis, because they werent being toileted, sometimes up to 15 hours apart!

Needless to say, the Care Quality Commission were contacted and the Agency was sacked - off after an investigation.

The sad part of the story is that those "carers" were rehired by another agency and returned to the same job!

In the days when we had a publicly owned and Managed "Carers" in Primary and Community settings - they were accountable directly to Local Authorities and then directly to the Department of Health.

People do die and suffer complex health problems because support isnt there.

For every pound "cut" from Health and Social Care budgets over the last 11 years - another vulnerable patient steps one rung down the ladder - suffering indignity, second rate care, a poorer quality of life and the likelyhood of increased mental health issues and isolation.

If thats the way this Government [and those before] treat the most vulnerable in society - I am ashamed of my country.

On Sunday - along with millions - I will be attending the memorial service at the local war memorial to honour those who paid the ultimate sacrifice, those still serving and those who have served: I dread to think of what those scattered across the battlefields of the world would think - if they returned to see just whats happened to their country - and how those in power have utter contempt for our people.
 
Laughing said:
If the policy was : Anyone entering the profession has to be fully vaccinated against a, b, and c I would be fully in favour of that.

Imposing a new restriction risks people leaving the profession, telling them to feck right off, doesn't improve the level of healthcare we have right now and would kill people.
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So I guess you are in favour of the government starting to recruit vaccinated people, say 5% of current levels, with a 4 month warning for people in job to get vaccinated or leave.

Then we end up with a vaccinated work force and no drop in employees. It's called a strategic approach, something this government aren't very good at.

As for the question about only treating vaccinated patients, why not. If you don't trust medical practices in the UK, that's your choice, but apply it after you get ill, not just before. It'll certainly frighten more people into getting the vaccine.
 
BoroMart said:
So I guess you are in favour of the government starting to recruit vaccinated people, say 5% of current levels, with a 4 month warning for people in job to get vaccinated or leave.

Then we end up with a vaccinated work force and no drop in employees. It's called a strategic approach, something this government aren't very good at.

As for the question about only treating vaccinated patients, why not. If you don't trust medical practices in the UK, that's your choice, but apply it after you get ill, not just before. It'll certainly frighten more people into getting the vaccine.
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I wouldn't be entirely in favour of that Mart for a couple of reasons. For example a cardio surgeon leaves because he doesn't want to be vaccinated. You probably wouldn't be able to replace him in 4 months. It also ignores the fact that we don't just need to replace like-for-like we want to increase the staffing levels.

As an end goal, having all medical professionals vaccinated is great, sacking those who wont get vaccinated, isn't the right path to that goal, in my opinion.
 
I think an important aspect of this is that many of the most vulnerable (care home residents etc) got Covid in hospital or from someone discharged from hospital. They may have caught it from other patients or from the staff treating them. I understand if someone has a medical exemption but FFS, if you are frontline working for the NHS, are not medically exempt, get the jab or go get a job doing something else. I am sure that the NHS has a lot of staff currently isolating or off sick with Covid, would that be the case if everyone that could, did have the jab.

On a side note, I have a colleague (not NHS) that is using not having a second jab as a way to continue working from home 'sorry but I have had to cancel my second jab three times now as the times were not convenient'!!! She got pinged last week so had to stay home fore 10 days....I know she didn't thanks to FB!!!
 
Jonny_Rondos_Disco_pants said:
Nurses and Drs who don’t believe in medical science should be ashamed. As someone mentioned above, most of the unvaccinated health care wirkers won’t be frontline workers.

it’s mandatory where im working abroad. They want to minimise medical issues. Common sense.

I also learned this morning that a former work colleague has died from covid infection complications.
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The science?
An Irish MP (pro vax) made a speech last week against vax passports to support those who can’t be vaxed for medical reasons. In parliament she referred to the latest data which says those vaxed/unvaxed are equally likely to get infected and pass the virus on.

She also referred to a BMJ report saying the same.

Now, I have do idea but I do know that of the over 500k kids who tested positive last week 85% had been vaxxed.
Equally with higher cases this year with less than 20% of the population to go at (last year we had the whole population to go at as there was no vax) it is reasonable to listen to the latest scientific reports with a degree of - ‘sounds about right’

On that basis it is reasonable to conclude the key advantage to getting health professionals vaxed is so they will not become seriously ill (that appears to be supported by the science).
That is one hell of a precedent to set.

Also, of course, we ought to be clear (if all of the above stacks up) with everyone of the reason for the mandate.
It is not about protecting others from getting infected.
 
Over 95% of NHS workers in the North East have had at least one jab, we are the highest (well done North East 👏👏) but in other areas it's largely 92-94%.

I'll bet my hat that the percentage of those who are front line nurses, doctors etc is even higher, and those not in clinical roles lower. Ie the more qualified, more inclined to be having it.

Then of that remaining few % who haven't who are nurses/ doctors, most have probably got a good reason (not some anti-vax reason) ie may have been pregnant, already had covid, off sick, or not been able to have the vaccine through other reasons. Plenty of them will still be coming forward, and next to zero will give up their career for something which 99% of their peers are saying is a good idea. If they want to go against 99% of their peers, without a good medical reason, then to be honest I wouldn't trust their judgement anyway.

Those who don't choose to have it for non-medical reasons (minute percentage is my bet) will just get moved away from at risk patients, which is fair enough I think.

The timing is bizarre, it should have been put in already (months ago), but they're doing it after winter to avoid potential winter staffing issues (albeit I can't see it having a noticeable effect), the thing is by spring it will be well and truly the endemic phase anyway. There's no getting away from it, covid isn't going anywhere, but there just isn't likely to be any more massive waves. Bringing it in around spring is kind of pointless anyway.
 
Andy_W said:
Over 95% of NHS workers in the North East have had at least one jab, we are the highest (well done North East 👏👏) but in other areas it's largely 92-94%.

I'll bet my hat that the percentage of those who are front line nurses, doctors etc is even higher, and those not in clinical roles lower. Ie the more qualified, more inclined to be having it.

Then of that remaining few % who haven't who are nurses/ doctors, most have probably got a good reason (not some anti-vax reason) ie may have been pregnant, already had covid, off sick, or not been able to have the vaccine through other reasons. Plenty of them will still be coming forward, and next to zero will give up their career for something which 99% of their peers are saying is a good idea. If they want to go against 99% of their peers, without a good medical reason, then to be honest I wouldn't trust their judgement anyway.

Those who don't choose to have it for non-medical reasons (minute percentage is my bet) will just get moved away from at risk patients, which is fair enough I think.

The timing is bizarre, it should have been put in already (months ago), but they're doing it after winter to avoid potential winter staffing issues (albeit I can't see it having a noticeable effect), the thing is by spring it will be well and truly the endemic phase anyway. There's no getting away from it, covid isn't going anywhere, but there just isn't likely to be any more massive waves. Bringing it in around spring is kind of pointless anyway.
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You are right Andy.
A micro-percentage of clinical staff havent had both jabs.
The biggest issue is the number of covid - carriers [patients] who have refused the jab and are now coming into hospitals carrying the disease. With the issue of long-covid, staff sickness, staff leaving in their droves, winter flu outbreaks and massive shortage of skilled clinicians - its melt-down time.
The public who refuse the jab [for any reason other than medical] should go sit on a desert island.
 
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