McGree’s transfer request?

wilkos_perm said:
But why do you think there's been a falling out? What evidence is this based on?
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Just what I think, no evidence, no social media rumours. We have been really struggling and McGree has been on the bench. When he came back from international duty we where desperate for a creative player with Crooks and Rogers leaving and he couldnt get in the team.
 
All these secret sales and the unspent Viduka insurance money should leave us in a great position with FFP.
 
McGree was actually my favourite player last season, even ahead of Giles, Akpom and Archer. I loved watching him when he was "on it", he was the player who was making us tick at one stage during the season.

I don't think he's come close to being the same player for us since he picked up that injury towards the end of last season.

If he is genuinely unsettled, and the rumours regarding him wanting to move to Dortmund were true, then I do feel we should look to sell in the summer.

If they are just rumours however, then Carrick needs to find a way of helping him to re-find his form.

Starting him wide left would be a good start.
 
wilkos_perm said:
But why do you think there's been a falling out? What evidence is this based on?
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At the beginning of the season McGree was one of the first players in the group to bach Carrick 100%. A couple of weeks later a French club and Spanish made strong enquiries about. Straight away he said, I want to go. Carrick was fuming about his quick u turn, just before the start of the season. Hence the fall out and McGree not starting quite a few of the opening fixtures.
McGree has not been happy since.
 
B_G said:
Would be another big hole to fill and we've got enough of them already.
I hope Scott has a better summer than last season
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Scott had a budget of 10m and got RVB whose probably worth twice that, Roger’s who has clawed that initial spend back and could/should bring more in, Dieng who is a championship quality keeper, Engel and Bangura who look decent at this level, and Lath whose progressing, plus a few others who may or may not make it.

If he has a similar hit rate next summer but with a bigger budget we will be laughing
 
BoroMart said:
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Engel and Bangura who look decent at this level
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madHatter said:
At the beginning of the season McGree was one of the first players in the group to bach Carrick 100%. A couple of weeks later a French club and Spanish made strong enquiries about. Straight away he said, I want to go. Carrick was fuming about his quick u turn, just before the start of the season. Hence the fall out and McGree not starting quite a few of the opening fixtures.
McGree has not been happy since.
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That's fascinating insider info.

What's your source?
 
BoroMart said:
Scott had a budget of 10m and got RVB whose probably worth twice that, Roger’s who has clawed that initial spend back and could/should bring more in, Dieng who is a championship quality keeper, Engel and Bangura who look decent at this level, and Lath whose progressing, plus a few others who may or may not make it.

If he has a similar hit rate next summer but with a bigger budget we will be laughing
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Great for sustainability and the accounts not so great for building a promotion team. We are further away now than we were 12 months ago and with McGree and Hackney looking like they could depart, I really worry that we'll be even further away in 12 months time.

I disagree. Engel is not good enough for a promotion team. Not even close. He's one of our worst performances most weeks.

We know very little about Bangura really. He's looked decent in bursts so a bit of optimism there,

VDB looks a great talent but he's shown his inexperience over the last 6 weeks. He's been caught out quite a few times but gets a pass from the fans. He's not a £20m player, Not even close. Be lucky to get £8-10m, Ignoring the 3 relegated teams, the only defender in the league that is worth even close to £20m is Greaves. CB wasn't really a place we were struggling though.

Dieng is a decent 1st team player

Silvera - not good enough

Gilbert - Not good enough

Barlaser - Not good enough

Azaz - Seems a decent player but not sure he's good enough to be the first choice no10 if we aspire towards promotion

Lath - Probably ok for a back up. Need better for a first choice striker. Would have hoped for better for his fee


At the end of last season we probably had the following as a core of players to build the team round


-------------?????------------

Smith---Fry----Lenihan--?????

-----Howson---Hackney-------

Forss------Akpom-----McGree

----------????????---------------

then we lost Akpom.


-------------?????------------

Smith---Fry----Lenihan--?????

-----Howson---Hackney-------

Forss------???????-----McGree

----------????????---------------

Are we any better off now?
We've sorted out the GK position
We need to replace Howson even if he renews.
Smith is a year older and coming off a bad injury. He needs replacing


------------Dieng--------------

???---Fry/VDB----Lenihan--???

-----????????---Hackney-------

Forss/Jones---???????-----McGree

----------------??????-----------

There's a real possibility we loseMcGree and Hackney. The recruitment team have massively failed over the last 18 months. The first team is far weaker and we have less squad depth.
 
Sergio said:
Yes he'd be a HUGE miss. Yet another creative player being pushed out. Rogers and Crooks both huge misses
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This. With Crooks and Rodgers gone - and Jones injured - we just don't have anyone capable of that little shimmy, that pass that opens up a tight defence. Forss, Lath. Coburn: workhorses, but predictable. With his brightness and energy, McGree makes things happen around the final third. Of course, he's struggling like all the rest right now - he can't do it on his own. Yes, he's not irreplaceable, but he's one of our better players for sure.
 
B_G said:
Great for sustainability and the accounts not so great for building a promotion team.
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It will be good for both longer term.

B_G said:
We are further away now than we were 12 months ago
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Only because of the loanees. Our playing assets at the club are betteroday than they were 12 months ago and our FFP headroom is better allowing is more scope to invest than 12 months ago. Both are significant factors for a promotion tilt. we didn't own the contracts of Giles, Archer or Ramsey and ultimately just made their parent clubs a combined 38m richer. While sinking 2-3m in loans/wages for no benefit. Take those p[layers out of the squad 12 months ago and we had a very poor squad bar Akpom.

We've effectively swapped Akpom for 6m in the bank (profit on Rogers), 6.5m due in further payments (Rogers), Rav Van Den Berg, Dieng, Engel, Bangura, Lath and some squad fillers. While retaining everyonie else bar Crooks who was 30 anyway and Bola who was dog-dirt.

The squad we own has significantly improved. As has our ability to invest.

B_G said:
and with McGree and Hackney looking like they could depart
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McGree, probably, at a modest profit, Hackney I feel is unlikely this summer. But if Hackney does leave, being on such a long contract, and having so many top prem admirers, is likely to be comfortably our record sale. Bidding will start at 25m. McGree likely to go for 4 or 5. we've still got the 8m + 8m from Rogers, and of course we didn't spend all our summer FFP allowance due to being outbid on a CF at 8m. Our FFP allowance will be enormous, if we sell Hackney and McGree. north of 45m gap in our FFP. This would give us the ability to have our Ivan Toney moment, but for 3 or 4 players of that level and potential not just the one that Brentford needed.

B_G said:
I disagree. Engel is not good enough for a promotion team. Not even close. He's one of our worst performances most weeks.
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He's susceptable to pace, but he's a decent enough midtable player, he may improve with a full pre-season. He lurches from awful to man of the match to be honest, needs a bit more consistency.

B_G said:
VDB looks a great talent but he's shown his inexperience over the last 6 weeks
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Which means he is getting better all the time.

B_G said:
Silvera - not good enough

Gilbert - Not good enough

Barlaser - Not good enough

Azaz - Seems a decent player but not sure he's good enough to be the first choice no10 if we aspire towards promotion

Lath - Probably ok for a back up. Need better for a first choice striker. Would have hoped for better for his fee
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Wow all very negative ninny. Silvera is a squad player and ok at that role, Gilbert just haven't seen enough to know. Barlaser doesn't fit our playing style, I'd sell him, probably still get a small profit though. Azaz good player still learning how we play. Lath scores a goal every other game, what more do you want for 4m? We paid 15m 7 years ago for a player that couldn't even do that. and didn't work half as hard as Lath

B_G said:
The recruitment team have massively failed over the last 18 months.
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See above, that's beyond over the top critiscism. They failed to get a second CF, but they also didn't panic buy which I'm happy about.
 
When Ramsey came in last season didnt he replace McGree? Did that put his nose out of joint? He may just want to experience other countries.

Its hardly the clubs fault if a player wants to go with only 1 year left.

It will be a big hole to fill not necessarily because he's great but he is one of the only players we have left that has good technical ability, can make things happen and suits Carricks style/setup. Hes been very hit and miss since hes been here.

We are going to need so many new players next season.
 
BoroMart said:
It will be good for both longer term.


Only because of the loanees. Our playing assets at the club are betteroday than they were 12 months ago and our FFP headroom is better allowing is more scope to invest than 12 months ago. Both are significant factors for a promotion tilt. we didn't own the contracts of Giles, Archer or Ramsey and ultimately just made their parent clubs a combined 38m richer. While sinking 2-3m in loans/wages for no benefit. Take those p[layers out of the squad 12 months ago and we had a very poor squad bar Akpom.

We've effectively swapped Akpom for 6m in the bank (profit on Rogers), 6.5m due in further payments (Rogers), Rav Van Den Berg, Dieng, Engel, Bangura, Lath and some squad fillers. While retaining everyonie else bar Crooks who was 30 anyway and Bola who was dog-dirt.

The squad we own has significantly improved. As has our ability to invest.


McGree, probably, at a modest profit, Hackney I feel is unlikely this summer. But if Hackney does leave, being on such a long contract, and having so many top prem admirers, is likely to be comfortably our record sale. Bidding will start at 25m. McGree likely to go for 4 or 5. we've still got the 8m + 8m from Rogers, and of course we didn't spend all our summer FFP allowance due to being outbid on a CF at 8m. Our FFP allowance will be enormous, if we sell Hackney and McGree. north of 45m gap in our FFP. This would give us the ability to have our Ivan Toney moment, but for 3 or 4 players of that level and potential not just the one that Brentford needed.


He's susceptable to pace, but he's a decent enough midtable player, he may improve with a full pre-season. He lurches from awful to man of the match to be honest, needs a bit more consistency.


Which means he is getting better all the time.


Wow all very negative ninny. Silvera is a squad player and ok at that role, Gilbert just haven't seen enough to know. Barlaser doesn't fit our playing style, I'd sell him, probably still get a small profit though. Azaz good player still learning how we play. Lath scores a goal every other game, what more do you want for 4m? We paid 15m 7 years ago for a player that couldn't even do that. and didn't work half as hard as Lath


See above, that's beyond over the top critiscism. They failed to get a second CF, but they also didn't panic buy which I'm happy about.
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Your whole argument seems to centre around value, FFP and profit on players.
I'm not really interested in having that discussion. I am talking purely quality on the pitch. We have took a big backward step this season. If we lose McGree and Hackney, I find it hard to see how we take a forward step next season.

You are right I am very negative about our current situation. I am a realist. I'm not a permanent doom and gloomer. I was very positive 12 months ago. I say what I see and what I am seeing right now is a group of players who are not good enough to get promoted. Not even close.

The squad we own is not better than what it was 12 months ago. The performance in the league tells you that.
 
That's a very simplistic way of looking at it though, as we know performance on the pitch in the league has been affected by a few things this season. I don't know how you can come to a conclusion on whether some of the new players are good enough or not as we haven't seen enough consistently.

If we hadn't been ravaged by injuries we might have very different thoughts on how strong the squad is. Not good enough to get promoted yet we've been in touching distance of the playoffs all season with pretty much an entire 11 out for most of it.
 
Sad fact is, a club the size of ours, top half mid table Championship has to sell players just to fend off FFP. We are not in a financial position to be able to fight off bigger clubs.

Akpom - after the season he had with one year left on his contract, wasn't staying.

Hackney - young English CM, been excellent since breaking through last season. We won't be able to keep hold of him.

Rogers - no way we could turn that bid down. A min £7m profit in 6 months??

Crooks - wanted to leave and experience America with his family. No hard feelings, hope it works out for him (although gutted he left)

McGree - decent Championship player, rather he stayed but if he's unhappy and we get £4-5m? for him 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

Archer - £18m, Ramsey £14m....... couldn't afford them.

Steffen - reported £80k week which City were paying a huge chunk of for his loan here.

I'm not exactly sure what we could have done differently? Forced players to stay when they didn't want to? Risk the financial stability of the club by stubbornly turning down big money?

Of course the players who came in were not as good - spending £10-12m on a dozen players when 3 went for £45m in the summer.......🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

Massive, huge transfer window coming up where we need need quality not quantity. Get the right players and not have the mental injuries we have had - we'll be up there next season 👍
 
BoroMart said:
Lath scores a goal every other game, what more do you want for 4m?
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Fair comment, though I'm surprised it's that much tbh. Personally, I don't fancy him because I think he just doesn't hold the ball up well enough - we look a different proposition when a fit Coburn plays. If Lath can add that quality to his game then fine, but at the moment he's a back-up level player if you want to be competing at the top end of the division.
 
BoroPhil said:
That's a very simplistic way of looking at it though, as we know performance on the pitch in the league has been affected by a few things this season. I don't know how you can come to a conclusion on whether some of the new players are good enough or not as we haven't seen enough consistently.

If we hadn't been ravaged by injuries we might have very different thoughts on how strong the squad is. Not good enough to get promoted yet we've been in touching distance of the playoffs all season with pretty much an entire 11 out for most of it.
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The fact we've had so many injuries means we've had a better look at some of the players than we would have. You can still see what players do individually even when the team is struggling. VDB still looks a good player in a team that is struggling. Dieng still looks a decent keeper despite us conceding lots of goals.

It feels similar to when Strachan was here and we bought a load of cheap players from Scotland that just weren't good enough while we let decent players go. Yes there was the odd decent players amongst them, McDonald, Robson, McManus, but the majority were poor players and it set us back years.

If we lose Howson, Hackney, McGree and McNair and buy another 10 players of a similar ilk as last season, then we are ****ed.

Take on board Marts point that we have made FFP headroom and there's going to be a summer war chest. If we do go out and spend £30m in the summer and get some quality players in then great but at the moment the club have never indicated that they are going to spend. It's all on blind faith.
 
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