New Zealand weight lifter at the Olympics

Even though I am a father to a trans son, I do agree that there is something wrong about using gender reassignment to gain advantage in sport. After watching the difficulties that my son has undergone on his journey, the thought that someone using the same journey to cheat at sport is a difficult one to understand.
The debate about gender and sex is an interesting point. Sex categorises a person as male or female, however that can be a slightly grey area in a small percentage of people. Gender identity is a sliding scale between masculinity and femininity and is not necessarily defined by your genitalia. In terms of sport it is my belief that it should be defined as sex at birth, some people may miss out but everyone should be encouraged to participate at some level in sport and exercise, even if they wont progress to higher levels of sport.
My son was a great badminton player and won sports day at the javelin, however he had to compete against the girls even though he would have beaten the boys. He couldnt compete in football, rugby etc against the boys as the hormone blockers stunted his growth and he is only 5ft 6in, and as such physically was much smaller and weaker.
There are already big differences in terms of gender within each sex. If you look at female body builders they have incredible physiques. I was was once particpating in a team build with a previous employer, this needed us to clear a load of logs and carry them accross a bridge and dump them in a field. I am a big, strong but aging chap and could lift the biggest log and move it, however it took all of my effort, in contrast their was a young lady who was a regular gym goer, she could lift almost as much as myself, but carried on for hours. I was stunned by her stamina and ability to outperform me and other males. I developed a lot of respect for other peoples ability.
 
Plenty on Google regarding males in women's prisons sexualy assaulting inmates.

Ok, but I’m not the one making these claims and I’m not shouting them down so I don’t feel the onus is on me to read all the hits that a Google search could turn up. If someone makes a claim like this they should be able to back up their argument with evidence and not expect others to back it up for them, or at least admit it’s their opinion and not based on solid facts.

I’m absolutely sure many women in prison have been assaulted by males over the years, but back to my initial point - how many of those assaults were by male rapists that had transitioned in a male prison and been moved to a female prison and allowed to mix with the other female prisoners?
 
Ok, but I’m not the one making these claims and I’m not shouting them down so I don’t feel the onus is on me to read all the hits that a Google search could turn up. If someone makes a claim like this they should be able to back up their argument with evidence and not expect others to back it up for them, or at least admit it’s their opinion and not based on solid facts.

I’m absolutely sure many women in prison have been assaulted by males over the years, but back to my initial point - how many of those assaults were by male rapists that had transitioned in a male prison and been moved to a female prison and allowed to mix with the other female prisoners?
At least one, which is one too many.The point is no one should be able to claim to identify as a women and have access to woman only areas on the strength of the claim.
 
At least one, which is one too many.The point is no one should be able to claim to identify as a women and have access to woman only areas on the strength of the claim.

I agree once would be too many, and if this was happening often or situations where this kind of assault was potentially allowed to happen were being regularly created then I’d say there was a problem... but I’m yet to see evidence and one occurrence in isolation, while tragic, would hardly be symptomatic of a widespread problem and therefore not an ongoing relevant issue to raise when discussing trans rights.
 
Agree, as per usual we’ve moved off subject.

My question is why has no one involved in the transition of this person from masculine to feminine not questioned her need to retain her obvious masculine ( and advantageous) vestiges in a competitive sport, surely she “ should” be wanting to highlight her femininity.
Or am I way off in my understanding of transition?
 
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I agree once would be too many, and if this was happening often or situations where this kind of assault was potentially allowed to happen were being regularly created then I’d say there was a problem... but I’m yet to see evidence and one occurrence in isolation, while tragic, would hardly be symptomatic of a widespread problem and therefore not an ongoing relevant issue to raise when discussing trans rig

I agree once would be too many, and if this was happening often or situations where this kind of assault was potentially allowed to happen were being regularly created then I’d say there was a problem... but I’m yet to see evidence and one occurrence in isolation, while tragic, would hardly be symptomatic of a widespread problem and therefore not an ongoing relevant issue to raise when discussing trans rights.
If trans rights are to be able to change sex and live the life of that sex no problem. Just to say I'm a woman and access areas normally of limits to men is abuse of those rights and an abuse of a womens right to privacy and safety in my opinion. I identify as a doctor today, doesn't make me one. We are at the ridiculous stage in society where women are identified as " menstruating persons".look up the Brighton nhs midwifery guide that identifies a mother as a " birthing person"..
 
If trans rights are to be able to change sex and live the life of that sex no problem. Just to say I'm a woman and access areas normally of limits to men is abuse of those rights and an abuse of a womens right to privacy and safety in my opinion. I identify as a doctor today, doesn't make me one. We are at the ridiculous stage in society where women are identified as " menstruating persons".look up the Brighton nhs midwifery guide that identifies a mother as a " birthing person"..
Thank you for your support admin, someone gets my point.
 
Dear god is that the level of your response, they don't give birth either so they are not " birth persons".
Post menopausal women can give birth. Mostly via in-vitro or other medical procedures but natural births do occur.

re: "birth person"
I imagine Brighton has probably had to deal with trans men giving birth and so wanted their guidance to be inclusive.
 
Sadly there are lots of examples. Search Karen White.


Thanks for the article, it’s much appreciated when people can provide evidence. Regardless of where someone sits in this debate, that situation is an absolute disgrace and I hope you’re mistaken about there being lots more examples (even though one is too many as mentioned before) as the article concludes with the following…

But Bishop argues that cases like White’s are still rare.

“The case boards are a good way of doing things – you can’t say the system is wrong when it goes wrong once. It is almost the exception that proves the rule – you’ve just got to look at what went wrong and make sure it doesn’t happen again. No system is perfect. It’s human nature that people will sometimes get it wrong.”
 
If trans rights are to be able to change sex and live the life of that sex no problem. Just to say I'm a woman and access areas normally of limits to men is abuse of those rights and an abuse of a womens right to privacy and safety in my opinion. I identify as a doctor today, doesn't make me one. We are at the ridiculous stage in society where women are identified as " menstruating persons".look up the Brighton nhs midwifery guide that identifies a mother as a " birthing person"..

In all honesty I usually avoid these debates as I’m conflicted myself over some of the issues and there’s so much ambiguity that laypeople can be easily confused. I always proceed on the basis that I know what I think, but I’m happy to have my views changed if evidence contradicts my initial thoughts.

I see the changes in terminology that you’ve mentioned and others as needlessly divisive, they may be done out of some genuine desire for inclusivity but always seem to be at the expense of women. I realise that some people strongly disagree with that but it’s how a lot of people interpret these actions - this is where discourse often descends into the Twitter mudslinging but these views need to be openly discussed as they are not denying anyone’s right to exist, if it can be explained why these terms are more appropriate then people might not object, but the problem is they usually don’t seem more appropriate and often sound like bizarre insults. I do wonder how many trans people are actually involved in creating these terms too, when I see these things kick off it rarely seems to be trans people throwing the insults about.
 
Thanks for the article, it’s much appreciated when people can provide evidence. Regardless of where someone sits in this debate, that situation is an absolute disgrace and I hope you’re mistaken about there being lots more examples (even though one is too many as mentioned before) as the article concludes with the following…

But Bishop argues that cases like White’s are still rare.

“The case boards are a good way of doing things – you can’t say the system is wrong when it goes wrong once. It is almost the exception that proves the rule – you’ve just got to look at what went wrong and make sure it doesn’t happen again. No system is perfect. It’s human nature that people will sometimes get it wrong.”
Sadly - It may not be an isolated case. But as you agree it is a disturbing scenario.
 
If trans rights are to be able to change sex and live the life of that sex no problem. Just to say I'm a woman and access areas normally of limits to men is abuse of those rights and an abuse of a womens right to privacy and safety in my opinion.
That is an interesting view. I support that trans men should not be allowed in womens prisons if they are looking to harm them in any way.
However you also state that womens places of privacy and safety should also remain private. So we stop the access to toilets too, what happens to trans people who identify as male ? I am sure that there would be uproar if my son with his bushy beard entered the ladies loo rather than having to endure the sit downs in the gents.
 
That is an interesting view. I support that trans men should not be allowed in womens prisons if they are looking to harm them in any way.
However you also state that womens places of privacy and safety should also remain private. So we stop the access to toilets too, what happens to trans people who identify as male ? I am sure that there would be uproar if my son with his bushy beard entered the ladies loo rather than having to endure the sit downs in the gents.
Don't understand your point, if you identify as a woman the first thing to go should be the beard, your son is better of using the male cubicle rather than go into a woman's toilet looking male. If a women identifies as a man and wants to use the male toilet looking like a woman she is taking a chance on being sexualy assaulted. Ñeither should use a toilet unless they look like the sex that toilet is assigned to, which to me would be well down the road of re- assignment.It will avoid a lot of social and legal complications.
 
Don't understand your point, if you identify as a woman the first thing to go should be the beard, your son is better of using the male cubicle rather than go into a woman's toilet looking male. If a women identifies as a man and wants to use the male toilet looking like a woman she is taking a chance on being sexualy assaulted. Ñeither should use a toilet unless they look like the sex that toilet is assigned to, which to me would be well down the road of re- assignment.It will avoid a lot of social and legal complications.
My son was born female and transitioned to male.
I think you may be a bit confused about the pronouns used.
You talk about transitioning men not going into womens prisons for their safety. However you talk about using the toilets that you identify with, therefore transitioning men will enter female toilets.
The flip side is that they go into the sex at birth toilet, this then leads to the situation with my son (born girl) going into the ladies.
As neither case is ideal, open up the disabled toilets for them.
 
My son was born female and transitioned to male.
I think you may be a bit confused about the pronouns used.
You talk about transitioning men not going into womens prisons for their safety. However you talk about using the toilets that you identify with, therefore transitioning men will enter female toilets.
The flip side is that they go into the sex at birth toilet, this then leads to the situation with my son (born girl) going into the ladies.
As neither case is ideal, open up the disabled toilets for them.
Glad you replied to that.

We are overcoming this particular issue here by having more unisex toilets, and hopefully being more grown up when you use them
 
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