One slight reason hydrogen may not be the answer to powering vehicles

[SmallTown]

But things are moving on and Teesside will be at the cutting edge as the technology improves.

It'll have to be a massive shift. Especially given how much renewable energy is being used to charge electric vehicles.

And this is not counting the inefficiency of hybrid engines v electric.

Or the fact hydrogen is highly explosive.

It the fact it's impossible to store long term


Look I know the FUD are holding on to hydrogen because they think it's like using an ice vehicle (it isn't, I've never bought a second hand car and been worried that the charging port pressurises properly). Or you're falling for the O and G propaganda that hydrogen is clean. Again, it's not as over 99% of it is made from a petrochemical process). They need to lie to you that it's green because they can commoditise it and make their vast profits.

The simple facts are: electric cars are more efficient than hydrogen ones. There are far more of them. The current infrastructure is massively in favour of EV and they are more convenient

I know people want to hold on to hydrogen for the reasons above. But for small vehicles the war is over.

 

[Randy]

Again. Pot and kettle.

Ah. Insult without backing it up
Interesting tactic

Have a lovely self care day ST.

 

[Cuthbert]

I have said this before but I'll say it again. In 15 years very few people will own cars. It is economically and environmentally wasteful. Once cars are fully autonomous we will just uber everywhere. There will be autonomous cabs everywhere. They will all be connected so you won't need drivers or dispatchers. Electricity will be close to free.

The only people with cars will be hobbyists in much the same way horses are now.

Not sure they will be hydrogen but that's a very real possibility.

Oh and hydrogen cars are no more likely to blow up than a petrol car or an electric one.

Sounds like a cool vision. Reckon it must be more than 15 years away though.

 

[Laughing]

Sounds like a cool vision. Reckon it must be more than 15 years away though.

Well maybe. Fully autonomous cars are not very fast away... 5 to 10 years for general acceptance. The 5g network already supports the car to car communication. Free electricity is a tough one to call. Fusion may be 5 years away or 50 years away.

Jonny cabs will arrive and be cheap as chips

 

[A]

Again. Pot and kettle.

Have a lovely self care day ST.

Looks like he'll have a busy day tomorrow. Those little scamps!

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

I know people want to hold on to hydrogen for the reasons above. But for small vehicles the war is over.

if electric cars are the end of automotive evolution then the game is up because they ain't clean enough. I know you drive an electric vehicle but why hold onto the technology so preciously? They are a good stepping stone but when new tech comes along, embrace it.
They are building a Hydrogen technology research centre in Middlesbrough, to look at fuelling all kinds of vehicles with hydrogen. they will be running trials locally on HGV's, busses and trains and - after a transition period of using blue hydrogen - aim to use only green. One company has already got planning permission for a green hydrogen plant at Haverton Hill and there will be others.

You keep saying that the hydrogen we use now is produced using fossil fuels and you are right, but plans are afoot to change this forever.

 

[SmallTown]

if electric cars are the end of automotive evolution then the game is up because they ain't clean enough. I know you drive an electric vehicle but why hold onto the technology so preciously? They are a good stepping stone but when new tech comes along, embrace it.
They are building a Hydrogen technology research centre in Middlesbrough, to look at fuelling all kinds of vehicles with hydrogen. they will be running trials locally on HGV's, busses and trains and - after a transition period of using blue hydrogen - aim to use only green. One company has already got planning permission for a green hydrogen plant at Haverton Hill and there will be others.

You keep saying that the hydrogen we use now is produced using fossil fuels and you are right, but plans are afoot to change this forever.

For the reasons mentioned above: hydrogen is made from fossils fuels.
Hydrogen is dangerous to store and impossible to store long term
A hydrogen fuel cell is 4 times less efficient then an electric motor.

I know people seem desperate to cling to hydrogen because you fall for the O and G industry lies. But they are only lying to you to keep something that the can male obscene profits on. For small vehicles the argument is over. EV are simply better all round than hydrogen.

Don't despair though. There is still a place for hydrogen om shipping and probably flight sp BP can still make obscene profits from raping the planet for plenty of years to come

 

[Cress]

Article

The hydrogen solution? - Nature Climate Change

A new star has exploded back onto the climate scene: hydrogen. It offers possibilities to move away from fossil fuels, but it brings its own challenges.

www.nature.com

 

[Randy]

Well maybe. Fully autonomous cars are not very fast away... 5 to 10 years for general acceptance. The 5g network already supports the car to car communication. Free electricity is a tough one to call. Fusion may be 5 years away or 50 years away.

Jonny cabs will arrive and be cheap as chips

Nikola Tesla allegedly had plans and schematics for free electricity but that doesn't make money does it.

 

[Laughing]

Nikola Tesla allegedly had plans and schematics for free electricity but that doesn't make money does it.

No it doesn't Randy but fusion energy, if proven viable, is unlimted electricity for fixed cost. It would solve the worlds energy problems in a single swoop.

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

I know people seem desperate to cling to hydrogen because you fall for the O and G industry lies. But they are only lying to you to keep something that the can male obscene profits on.

You are confusing green hydrogen with blue. Green hydrogen production does not rely on the oil and gas industry, but on renewables such as wind farms to provide the energy to produce hydrogen through electrolysis (separating water into oxygen and hydrogen).

 

[SmallTown]

You are confusing green hydrogen with blue. Green hydrogen production does not rely on the oil and gas industry, but on renewables such as wind farms to provide the energy to produce hydrogen through electrolysis (separating water into oxygen and hydrogen).

I'm not at all. Virtually no green hydrogen is made currently

 

[Cress]

“They represent a significant source of revenue for government. In 2019-20 fuel duty raised £28 billion. That represented 3.3 per cent of all receipts and was equivalent to £1,000 per household and 1.2 per cent of national income.”

 

[Liamo]

I'm not sure that comes anywhere near close to backing up you comment. But OK, yes, I'll concede that a single type of motorbike, that hasn't been put on sale yet, has yet to blow up

I'm not sure why you keep pushing this false narrative about hydrogen-cell vehicles "blowing up."

As the links I've already posted point out, hydrogen cars meet stringent safety standards and in fact are if anything, less hazardous than petrol-powered vehicles.

As stated in the link below:

In 2001, researchers at the University Of Miami's College of Engineering set fire to the hydrogen in a tank mounted in an SUV and later punctured the fuel line on a conventional gasoline-powered vehicle and set the leaking gas on fire. The burning hydrogen versus gasoline test showed that flames caused "severe" damage to the gasoline vehicle, whereas the hydrogen vehicle was undamaged because the burning hydrogen gas vented up and away from the vehicle.

8 Things You Need To Know About Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Cars

It also says that:

the pressurized tanks that hold the hydrogen have been tested repeatedly and found to be safe in collisions.

One test involves firing live ammunition into the tanks to pierce them. Pierced tanks typically vent their hydrogen so quickly that even if the gas catches fire it is out of the tank before explosive pressure could build up.

 

[SmallTown]

I'm not sure why you keep pushing this false narrative about hydrogen-cell vehicles "blowing up."

As the links I've already posted point out, hydrogen cars meet stringent safety standards and in fact are if anything, less hazardous than petrol-powered vehicles.

As stated in the link below:



8 Things You Need To Know About Hydrogen Fuel-Cell Cars

It also says that:

They probably are less hazardous then patrol vehicles. I'll give you that. But hydrogen IS highly explosive.

 

[Cress]

Whatever motor you got
“ Tiny particles of rubber from tyres are responsible for nearly half of road transport particulate emissions, according to the UK government, and they are the second largest source of microplastic pollutant in oceans after single-use plastic.16 Sept 2020”

 

[BlindBoyGrunt]

They probably are less hazardous then patrol vehicles. I'll give you that. But hydrogen IS highly explosive.

But you aren't frightened of petrol vehicles and you share the road with them.

 

[Randy]

I read this morning that Segway have developed a hydrogen/electric bike that is almost ready for sale. For roughly £8k but the article says it expects that price to rise a little.

The Segway Apex H2 Is A Hydrogen Sports Bike That'll Cost Only £8k

Segway has revealed the prototype version of its Apex H2, and it appears to have changed little from the concept

www.carthrottle.com

 

[Laughing]

I read this morning that Segway have developed a hydrogen/electric bike that is almost ready for sale. For roughly £8k but the article says it expects that price to rise a little.

The Segway Apex H2 Is A Hydrogen Sports Bike That'll Cost Only £8k

Segway has revealed the prototype version of its Apex H2, and it appears to have changed little from the concept

www.carthrottle.com

You're behind the curve Randy, I posted that a few days ago! It looks fantastic

 

[Randy]

You're behind the curve Randy, I posted that a few days ago! It looks fantastic

Been catching up with my weekly tech news. Dammit Laughing. Must you judge me?