People sh*tting their pants in August again
- Thread starter viv_andersons_nana
- Start date
Big_Nothing
Well-known member
Newy, are you disputing the facts put forward in the post comparing the records of those managers? Are you saying that the numbers are inaccurate?
If not then your infographic is misleading and your inability to accept that and try to deflect with talk of negativity and trolls seems petulant at best. You’re a grown man with a pretty rich knowledge of active footballers.
Why are you acting like this?
Unless of course those numbers are incorrect, if so please provide the correct ones. As from what I can see, they’re right and it looks bonkers to pretend they aren’t.
If not then your infographic is misleading and your inability to accept that and try to deflect with talk of negativity and trolls seems petulant at best. You’re a grown man with a pretty rich knowledge of active footballers.
Why are you acting like this?
Unless of course those numbers are incorrect, if so please provide the correct ones. As from what I can see, they’re right and it looks bonkers to pretend they aren’t.
Big_Nothing
Well-known member
The only thing I can think of is that you’re saying they’re not mutually exclusive and that you can refer to Karanka’s first season in charge as his first 46 games or that because he managed a Mowbray side that it’s fair to include those games.
Can you try and give a rationale?
Can you try and give a rationale?
The thread title is obviously meant to be provocative, but I agree with the sentiment - and have said the same on other threads. Carrick has been a breath of fresh air after Pulis/Warnock/Wilder and we need a sense of perspective. We're all disappointed to have lost our best performers from last season, but them's the breaks: football's relentless pecking order will not be thwarted. I remember when it seemed as if we were taking Aston Villa's best players on a weekly basis; the likes of Wolves, Leeds, Stoke were seen as feeder teams whose players we could pluck at will.
People talk about recruitment, but every other team is trying to recruit too. Last year, both of the automatic spots were taken by teams benefiting from parachute payments and the same will likely be the case this year. Getting promoted for a club in our position is a needle in a haystack proposition and if we give it a fair shot and enjoy the ride we should be content. If we get the luck/get on a roll - as Luton did last year - then you'll know the wheel of fortune has picked you.
I really hope the fans get - and stay - behind the team the next few games, and I really hope the players are determined to repay Carrick's faith in them because I think he can be a top manager in the game. My one criticism at the moment would be that he needs to better protect the defence. As someone who in his playing days sometimes dropped back to play at centre-half, I remember how important it was to feel you had someone in front of you mopping up, sniffing out danger. We need to retrench just a little, to give these young players a platform where they can establish themselves. As others have said, going to a midfield three in the short-term, to try and assert control in that area, is probably the way to go.
People talk about recruitment, but every other team is trying to recruit too. Last year, both of the automatic spots were taken by teams benefiting from parachute payments and the same will likely be the case this year. Getting promoted for a club in our position is a needle in a haystack proposition and if we give it a fair shot and enjoy the ride we should be content. If we get the luck/get on a roll - as Luton did last year - then you'll know the wheel of fortune has picked you.
I really hope the fans get - and stay - behind the team the next few games, and I really hope the players are determined to repay Carrick's faith in them because I think he can be a top manager in the game. My one criticism at the moment would be that he needs to better protect the defence. As someone who in his playing days sometimes dropped back to play at centre-half, I remember how important it was to feel you had someone in front of you mopping up, sniffing out danger. We need to retrench just a little, to give these young players a platform where they can establish themselves. As others have said, going to a midfield three in the short-term, to try and assert control in that area, is probably the way to go.
Diego
Well-known member
No one said we hadn’t won in 15 games. I said we have been on a poor run for 14/15 games, a bad spell going into last season. I can’t help The fact you never read my post properly.
Keep making stuff up though please. Why not make a new comparison and add enough 6 games to this season and pretend we won them. I’m sure no one will notice.
h_m_boro
Well-known member
Must say, sticking last season's results into our bad run, when we have 6 new players - including all your "best" players leaving with their 50+ goals......bit harsh.
Include pre season but last season was different, line drawn under it imo.
Can't disguise how poor we have been this season, team deserves most of the criticism.
Include pre season but last season was different, line drawn under it imo.
Can't disguise how poor we have been this season, team deserves most of the criticism.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
This happens every time as well. I've posted on here for well over a decade and have always been accused of being 'rose-tinted' or never saying anything negative about the club or the staff. But it's just complete b*llocks. Read the board back over the past ten years or more and you'll see criticism of the appointments of Woodgate, Warnock, Strachan, Pulis, Monk and Agnew. I said we'd go down under Karanka. I said Karanka should've been sacked after the Charlton debacle and that some of the football we played under him at times - a home game against QPR stands out (1-0 win, 90th min. penalty) - was absolutely abysmal to watch.
You'll see someone who is disgusted by the club's approach to ticket prices. The lack of engagement from the chairman is, in my opinion, a problem. If he isn't going to speak then I would like to hear more from Kieron Scott. The club has lacked joined-up thinking across the 'football operation' for a number of years. There's an over-reliance on loan players. They paid absolutely insane money for Assombalonga, Fletcher, Gestede, Saville, Guedioura, Flint. Martin Payero, what was the point of signing him? Just typing those names out makes you squirm with embarrassment and irritation at just how much money the club p*ssed down the drain.
There is loads of criticism but only where I really feel it's necessary. At the moment, the clubappears to be building a base of younger players with a young coach to try and develop a core group we can rely on for a number of seasons. Will it work? Who knows. But the stuff we've tried before hasn't worked either. You can point to last season's quality loans, well we're still in the second division. You can point to Warnock, Wilder, Monk, chucking £70m quid at it, Pulisball, Woodgate. All very different managers and styles. We're still in the second division.
Right now, forgive me for not demanding the heads of senior staff and some of the players. I spent years slagging off Akpom - that can't be right, can it? I thought I didn't post anything negative - and look what happened to him last season. I'm not saying we have a player who can repeat that but my point is that players can improve. Teams can improve.
Lots us of were incandescent that we let Tav go without a replacement. How the f*ck can a serious football club do this? It's embarrassing, etc. No wonder Wilder was p*ssed off. Six weeks later, we're championing Hayden Hackney as the best thing to come out of our academy since Downing.
Again, just because I'm not moaning my head off on here doesn't mean there aren't things to think about. The defence has been soft for a while and because we're now not scoring as many goals, that stands out quite a bit. It needs to be addressed or we won't achieve much this season. I posted that last week as it happens. To go into a season without a proper left-back having sold a perfectly good one in Marc Bola was bizarre and stupid in equal measure. Some of the other issues around signings, I can sort of forgive or be more relaxed about because I'd rather they waited for the right players than just toss money off on players for the sake of it.
But if the window closes and we haven't addressed the two key areas then there'll be questions, obviously. The team needs a midfielder and a striker, probably a winger. The TEAM, not the squad. We've built the squad and we have some promising young players to choose from. The TEAM needs work now.
Until then, I'll wait and see how it goes. I'm seeing a young team with lots of new players bedding in. Mistakes will be made, especially when trying to play out from the back. I'm just seeing the exact same posts and hysteria I see every single August. And that's whether we go up, make the playoffs, struggle, hover in the middle of the league. There is no patience.
I hope the help arrives this week in terms of two or three really good players. But, again, how many of us were saying this at this exact point last season... and then that same group of players put the run of form together. So that's why I'm not frothing at the mouth and sh*tting my pants. But that does not mean I'm not seeing things to question. I just see a young coach with a lot of promise. I think he and the players need time and patience.
Diego
Well-known member
He’s got my full support. Wanted him as soon as he was linked. He can be criticised though.
I back him to get us back winning.
Diego
Well-known member
The issue is, you have started a post saying we are all s***ing our pants. We aren’t, we are saying it as it is currently. Some posters will give you a bit back if you call out others. Way it is I’m afraid.
No one can doubt your passion for the club but think you’ve got this one wrong.
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Big_Nothing
Well-known member
I think it’s reasonable enough as it suggests the form isn’t to do with the individuals but possibly that teams have realised we’re quite easy to stop, have a soft underbelly and not much of a plan B.
When things stop working they can go across seasons, whether that be the mood of the players or the style of play not working. For some time now we have looked average at best and there hasn’t been much done to address those issues across that time frame even with a summer window.
Or maybe there has and they just need time to settle in, I still see why it’s mentioned though.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
Look at the state of the board. There are skidmarks everywhere. You can go back and trawl through the posts from every August since about 2008 and find the same thing every single time of every single season.
I don’t mind posters giving me a bit back, it’s the nature of a message board or forum. But to say I don’t ever criticise or post anything negative is absolute b*llocks. And I’ll challenge right back on that.
Diego
Well-known member
I’ve never said that, all I’m saying is people will respond to you saying people are s***ing themselves because they are highlighting our poor start as an alarm for concern. I’ve seen you criticise plenty before.
h_m_boro
Well-known member
All fair points - boils down to Carricks 4-2-3-1 formation and teams sussed us.
Like it or loathe it, Coventry did a job on us in the playoffs. Sat deep with a flat back 6, 2 CMs protecting them and then relied on Haymer and Gyokeres to hit us on the break. Worked a treat.
We desperately need a good, experienced CM and CF - absolute minimum - this week and also CB and hopefully a RB.......or a RB who is comfortable playing CB.
But I just can't compare the team/personnel from last season to this - so many critical changes it's a bit unfair.
I'd be more understanding if we did what Southgate did - replacing very good seasoned pros with gambles, when we had the money - but the 6 players who have gone would have cost us £60m+.......which we haven't even got a quarter of that. So we adopted a new model, and we have to give it time to see whether it works or it's another Boro false dawn
indeedido
Well-known member
I've often remarked that I think you are an excellent poster over that same decade.
I remember your positions over the years and have often been aligned or at least sympathetic.
Your tone above is much more I can agree with than across the summer and early season.
I don't think we have built a very good squad on the summer dealings to date. I am also highly sceptical that the quality the team desperately needs will be recruited by deadline day. I think the permanent signings have been poor since Scott came in. I'm really frustrated he appears to have a free run and its Carrick that is attracting more stick.
I do have both sympathy for, and patience with Carrick. He is on an extended bad run of form and results and has probably made mistakes with decisions. He is however a young coach that clearly has something about him. I hope he is given a lot of time to work with what he has been served up with. The accountability is shared and he should attract criticism, but silk purse/sows ear and all that.
I'm far from frothing at the mouth, or s***ing my pants, but I am reflecting on 1 top flight season in 15, and some stunningly bad decisions along the way.
Gibson has rolled his dice a different direction (again) and I think they will roll off the table again.
uncle_rico
Well-known member
Great post
indeedido
Well-known member
Why not borrow quality again?All fair points - boils down to Carricks 4-2-3-1 formation and teams sussed us.
Like it or loathe it, Coventry did a job on us in the playoffs. Sat deep with a flat back 6, 2 CMs protecting them and then relied on Haymer and Gyokeres to hit us on the break. Worked a treat.
We desperately need a good, experienced CM and CF - absolute minimum - this week and also CB and hopefully a RB.......or a RB who is comfortable playing CB.
But I just can't compare the team/personnel from last season to this - so many critical changes it's a bit unfair.
I'd be more understanding if we did what Southgate did - replacing very good seasoned pros with gambles, when we had the money - but the 6 players who have gone would have cost us £60m+.......which we haven't even got a quarter of that. So we adopted a new model, and we have to give it time to see whether it works or it's another Boro false dawn
It got us closer than we've been since relegation. The team fell short perhaps because the players we actually owned and played were not so good, much more than the loan stars "bottled it" in the play-offs. (Ramsey was injured anyway, Akpom too).
It is the class we are missing and why we are likely to continue struggling.