Phil Foden

[Diego]

No chance for me.
Foden can play the pep way and that suits him but Bellingham runs from deep and gets EVERY kind of goal, head, feet. Overhead and foden would impinge on Bellinghams runs and space if that were tried….I don’t think it works….

I’d still love to see it before it’s ruled out. It’s fair to say what we are seeing now is not working but I still think what I am suggesting has legs. It’s not just me either. There is plenty of people in football with the same idea.

 

[wilkos_perm]

Are we at the stage now where we have to accept he's a decent player who can only excel playing in a certain system?

It's a real head-scratcher because he produces moments of individual brilliance for City, so even if this England system doesn't suit him, I can't understand why he's never able to produce these moments for England.

Time and time again yesterday he went for the safe option.

Im not sure why Foden is such a focus. He thrives on quick movement and England have been horrendously laboured.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Im not sure why Foden is such a focus. He thrives on quick movement and England have been horrendously laboured.

England are laboured for two reasons; trippier; first problem
Foden ; biggest problem
Because we have no pace to help saka on the other side and help Kane up top because teams would sit deeper creating more space for everyone…
It’s a shyte show from Southgate tactically.
He’s shown himself to be utterly useless and out of his depth
It’s really sad and surprising how he’s managed to hide his tactical ineptitude for so long…

 

[wilkos_perm]

England are laboured for two reasons; trippier; first problem
Foden ; biggest problem
Because we have no pace to help saka on the other side and help Kane up top because teams would sit deeper creating more space for everyone…
It’s a shyte show from Southgate tactically.
He’s shown himself to be utterly useless and out of his depth
It’s really sad and surprising how he’s managed to hide his tactical ineptitude for so long…

Left back is definitely an issue, not just that Trippier is right footed, he's also been very poor. But iWalkers, Stones, Rice, Kane, Bellingham have all also been laboured and poor on the ball at times

 

[indeedido]

Foden has been terrible. Why does a solution have to include him?

 

[parmoboy]

Im not sure why Foden is such a focus. He thrives on quick movement and England have been horrendously laboured.

I accept that the way we play doesn't suit his style of play but he's also struggling to get the basics right at times. Wayward passes and lots of backwards passing. He's looked like a little boy playing against men at times.

How many times have we seen him beat a man during the tournament?

We've seen him have big moments for City but you just never feel he has that in him when he plays for England.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

No chance for me.
Foden can play the pep way and that suits him but Bellingham runs from deep and gets EVERY kind of goal, head, feet. Overhead and foden would impinge on Bellinghams runs and space if that were tried….I don’t think it works….

There's room for more than one player in that space behind the striker. Bellingham coming in late would be perfect, he has the power to do that.

 

[davidmills]

Foden has been terrible. Why does a solution have to include him?

There is only Guehi who hasn’t been terrible and he is now banned
So if we are not including anyone who has been terrible we will need a new starting 11

 

[Nano]

Kane is a bully for England against the weaker opposition and goes missing against the better teams.

Drop Kane and you will see better performances from Foden and Bellingham.

That's just England in general. Southgate is a poor manager but we have a very strong squad. International football is full of really, really crap teams and the majority of games England's squad could win without a manager. Players are good enough that even without any real plan they will get chances against weaker teams. We really struggle against other good teams though because just hoping someone does something special isn't enough.

 

[The Card Cheat]

Kane is a bully for England against the weaker opposition and goes missing against the better teams.

Drop Kane and you will see better performances from Foden and Bellingham.

Off the top of my head, I reckon Kane has scored 8 goals in about 20 competitive games against sides who were in the FIFA top 10 when we played them. I think that's probably comparable or better than most top English strikers of the last 50 years.

 

[Cambsred]

It's no wonder Southgate is struggling when there is little fan consensus about starting players.

What role does Rice play? David Moyes described him as a box to box rather than defensive midfielder which also clashes with Bellingham moving deeper.
Arsenal moved him higher and brought in a holding midfielder to sit behind him.

Mainoo feels similar too. Lots of attacking options.

Friendlies feel a bit wasted not trying out the actual squad and positions rather than looking at giving out some caps to fringe players.

 

[jonny_greenings_sock]

I don’t think there is a desperate need to build a team around Foden, just think we need to play him in his best position. If Southgate can’t do that then have the balls to drop him, playing him on the left is helping nobody!!!

He’s not playing wide left though, have a look at the average positions.

Bellingham and Foden are both playing narrow, like two 10s behind Kane. Saka is staying wide-ish right.

Presumably Trippier is supposed to be overlapping on the left but that’s not happening because he’s right footed and always cuts inside onto his right.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Left back is definitely an issue, not just that Trippier is right footed, he's also been very poor. But iWalkers, Stones, Rice, Kane, Bellingham have all also been laboured and poor on the ball at times

Because deep down the team know he’s picking the wrong players and tactics, they are not stupid tactically and I think it affects the players ability to perform when they know they are not set up correctly, they try to give everything but football is as much a psychological game as a physical game.

Southgate described trippiers performance as incredible in his sit down press conference after the game and praising Gallagher for shutting down the space.
It’s just so frustrating that the bloke thinks he knows what he’s doing.
Former managers are throwing him pelters about the team balance but Southgate, because of his ego is not interested in the fact that we all care and actually like him and want him to succeed but he sees it as an attack on his own knowledge or so called knowledge as an ‘elite’ coach (laughable)

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

He’s not playing wide left though, have a look at the average positions.

Bellingham and Foden are both playing narrow, like two 10s behind Kane. Saka is staying wide-ish right.

Presumably Trippier is supposed to be overlapping on the left but that’s not happening because he’s right footed and always cuts inside onto his right.

And we are now missing our best centre back because trippier can’t pass a ball 10 yards

 

[Doom_On_Horseback]

Kane won’t be dropped. He’s had a pretty woeful tournament. I’ve never seen him so bad for a run of games.

That said, he scores on Saturday and 3 goals in a major international tournament is a good return. That is all the history books will say. He should already have 3 but the Serbian goalie pulled off a wonder save.

 

[B_G]

He should already have 3 but the Serbian goalie pulled off a wonder save.

He should have 3 but he missed a free header from 5 yards. A miss that could have been really costly as it was our best chance of the game.

You are right, he won't be dropped, but he has been terrible so far.

It's no wonder Southgate is struggling when there is little fan consensus about starting players.

Southgate has had 5 weeks to drill this team now though, on top of the time he's had through the qualifying campaign but he still hasn't got them playing coherently. That's on him. Irrelevant of whether fans can agree on what our best team is.
Southgate is the man who can make the decisions and try things on the training ground to make things work and he's failed at that.

He's had these players for a long time now. Apart from Shaw and Maguire, we are pretty much at full strength. This is his forward line. He chose to leave Grealish and Rashford at home. Lads who play that LF position week in, week out.
He chose to use one of his 2 warm up games playing players he knew he wasn't taking instead of the ones he was. He could have used those games to get them drilled and work on the shape and iron out some of these problems.

I've defended Southgate constantly over the last couple of years on this board and to my mates but I think he's really let us down so far. He can still turn this round. We are luckily still there so we can still do this. But whatever happens from here on in, Southgate is a lucky man that we have got through that last match.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

He should have 3 but he missed a free header from 5 yards. A miss that could have been really costly as it was our best chance of the game.

The man coming under so much criticism on this thread delivered that ball.

Can I just say though, you talk of Grealish and Rashford playing the wide left role but we have someone in the squad who also did it week in week out but to a higher standard, Anthony Gordon.

 

[B_G]

Can I just say though, you talk of Grealish and Rashford playing the wide left role but we have someone in the squad who also did it week in week out but to a higher standard, Anthony Gordon.

I don't agree that he plays to a higher standard than Grealish personally. They are a different type of player. Grealish's goals and assists may not be spectacular but he holds the ball extremely well and draws plays to him creating space for others to use. He would have been a massive asset in helping us break down teams in this tournament.

Rashford is out of form and has had a poor season but he has played well for England in the past and has competed in 3 tournaments. Maybe Gordon is better, maybe he isn't. Gordon has had one better season so far but wasn't at the level of Rashford's best seasons. Time will tell on that.

But my point still stands. He doesn't look like he trusts Gordon to go on and change the game for him on that left when he needs a goal. If that's the case why didn't he take a player that he would have used. These are the players he chose from a very talented bunch. He chose to go away from the players he used through the qualifiers (Grealish, Rashford and Maddison) and replace them with Bowen, Eze and Gordon. And now he won't use them. That's on Southgate,

He also chose not to take a proper recognised LB to play while Shaw was recovering. Again that is on Southgate.

 

[parmoboy]

Kane won’t be dropped. He’s had a pretty woeful tournament. I’ve never seen him so bad for a run of games.

That said, he scores on Saturday and 3 goals in a major international tournament is a good return. That is all the history books will say. He should already have 3 but the Serbian goalie pulled off a wonder save.

To be fair, Kane doesn't usually put in top class performances at tournaments.

I remember the same comments were made at the last Euros - that he didn't look fit and possibly needed to be dropped. He then scored against the germans and if I remember rightly he scored 2 against Ukraine, and converted the penalty against Denmark to send us into the final.

Kane guarantees you goals at tournaments.

It's a tricky one because a Toney or Watkins might actually do more for the team. I'm sure both of them would press the opposition defence more effectively than Kane, and cause problems with their pace running in behind, but would you have as much faith in one of them scoring a goal in a high stakes game?

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

I don't agree that he plays to a higher standard than Grealish personally. They are a different type of player. Grealish's goals and assists may not be spectacular but he holds the ball extremely well and draws plays to him creating space for others to use. He would have been a massive asset in helping us break down teams in this tournament.

Rashford is out of form and has had a poor season but he has played well for England in the past and has competed in 3 tournaments. Maybe Gordon is better, maybe he isn't. Gordon has had one better season so far but wasn't at the level of Rashford's best seasons. Time will tell on that.

But my point still stands. He doesn't look like he trusts Gordon to go on and change the game for him on that left when he needs a goal. If that's the case why didn't he take a player that he would have used. These are the players he chose from a very talented bunch. He chose to go away from the players he used through the qualifiers (Grealish, Rashford and Maddison) and replace them with Bowen, Eze and Gordon. And now he won't use them. That's on Southgate,

He also chose not to take a proper recognised LB to play while Shaw was recovering. Again that is on Southgate.

It's all up to him, he's the manager. I can't knock him for leaving Grealish out, he was awful last season. Same for Rashford.

I can't understand his left back stance though. One of the weirdest management decisions of all time.