Should I re appeal a train penalty fine? If yes how can I do it more efficiectevly?

exeterboro

exeterboro

Well-known member
I recently got a £ 50 penalty fare for not having a ticket on a train, I appealed it on the basis that I tried to get one at the ticket office at the train station but even though it was open no one responded to my calls for assistance ( I shouted 3 times over a minute period) My train was due in two minutes and I had to go over steps to another platform to catch it. When I got on the train a conductor stepped on from the busy platform and asked for my ticket. He said I should have used the ticket machine at the entrance, I hadn't seen it and had caught a lift from elsewhere ( 10 miles) and was in a rush to get this train, the next one was 40 minutes, + I never use this train station usually. He also said I could have got one from him on the platform, I didn't see him. I explained this in my appeal. It was rejected that it was up to me to have sufficient time to get a ticket, and there was notices elsewhere explaining this. What should I do , if anything, I have already paid the fine?
 
It’s annoying, but it’s £50. How many hours effort and distraction are worth £50 to you? Probably not many.

I got royally screwed by a Ryanair delayed flight causing me to arrive after the Ryanair car hire desk had closed, forcing me to hire a separate car from another company in the airport, who were still open. Refund for the hire car I couldn’t collect? Absolutely not, even though I’d paid on my credit card.

Same equation. How many hours effort and distraction are worth that amount of money? I’ve gotten over it.
 
Had you taken a seat when you got on the train and he challenged you to produce a ticket?

If you had taken a seat then you have no recourse

If you had not taken a seat you could explain/argue the circumstances prior to boarding and that once you boarded the train you were in the process of seeking an on train conductor to purchase a valid ticket to travel.
 
If you had gotten to your destination without challenge, would you have got off the train and then sought out a ticket office to buy a ticket for the journey you had just taken?

I suspect not....
 
exeterboro said:
I recently got a £ 50 penalty fare for not having a ticket on a train, I appealed it on the basis that I tried to get one at the ticket office at the train station but even though it was open no one responded to my calls for assistance ( I shouted 3 times over a minute period) My train was due in two minutes and I had to go over steps to another platform to catch it. When I got on the train a conductor stepped on from the busy platform and asked for my ticket. He said I should have used the ticket machine at the entrance, I hadn't seen it and had caught a lift from elsewhere ( 10 miles) and was in a rush to get this train, the next one was 40 minutes, + I never use this train station usually. He also said I could have got one from him on the platform, I didn't see him. I explained this in my appeal. It was rejected that it was up to me to have sufficient time to get a ticket, and there was notices elsewhere explaining this. What should I do , if anything, I have already paid the fine?
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appeal and reiterate that ticket machine which was accessible to you was not available.. I'm assuming that you sought the conductor for a ticket and the ticket you purchased was indeed for the stations you travelled? Appeal again.. if it doesn't come back in your favour.. treat yourself to £200 free travel for the inconvenience.
 
National Rail Conditions of Travel (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National Rail Conditions of Travel.pdf). Most prevalent bits for you

6.1 You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train where there was the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:
6.1.1 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, either because there is no Ticket office open or a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not accept your only available method of payment (card or cash); and where notices indicate that Penalty Fares may apply from that station, you purchase a Permit to Travel if there is a working Permit to Travel issuing machine at the station where you start your journey – see Condition 10 for more information about Penalty Fares; or
6.1.2 The station is staffed, and you are specifically permitted to board a train service by an authorised member of staff, or you have received a written notice or heard an audible announcement to this effect; or
6.1.3 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, because
  1. 6.1.3.1 the Ticket office is closed; or
  2. 6.1.3.2 a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash); or
  3. 6.1.3.3 You have a disability and Ticket purchasing arrangements at the station you are departing from are not accessible to you.
In these cases, you must, as soon as you are reasonably able, buy an appropriate Ticket to complete your journey. The price of the Ticket you purchase will be the same as if you had bought a Ticket at the station from which you first departed.

INFORMATION: This means that you should buy a Ticket from the conductor on the train if there is one available; at an interchange station provided there is sufficient time before your connecting service; or, if neither of these is possible, at your destination

unfortunately ( and no judgement from me) as explained on your appeal rejection it is your responsibility to ensure you have sufficient time to obtain a ticket or promise to pay prior to boarding the train.

Essentially, if you board a train without holding a valid ticket then you are in breach of the Conditions of Travel and liable to prosecution unless you have a specifically defined good reason for not having a ticket. Being unable to buy a ticket at the station with cash because there is no open ticket office and no working ticket machine is one of these reasons, but even then you might be required to obtain a (free) "Permit to Travel" ticket from a machine prior to boarding a train.
 
sherlock1969 said:
Why?
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It's a recently introduced tax on those who haven't used a train for a while or who haven't been able to purchase a ticket in advance, for whatever reason.

Why was it introduced, there's always been ticket inspections and if you're trying to dodge it you have a chance of getting caught. They're now making an assumption that all people have no intention of paying, which is wrong. As described by the OP.
 
Corcaigh_the_Cat said:
It's a recently introduced tax on those who haven't used a train for a while or who haven't been able to purchase a ticket in advance, for whatever reason.

Why was it introduced, there's always been ticket inspections and if you're trying to dodge it you have a chance of getting caught. They're now making an assumption that all people have no intention of paying, which is wrong. As described by the OP.
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The rail network doesn't work well enough for it to start imposing such fines!
 
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