So Fury/Joshua 14th August confirmed

I'd forgotten chisora, it's a fact that Fury has only fought 3 better boxers than Takam, and Takam is probably AJs 8th or 9th best win

Possibly but im not sure what Fury fighting the likes of Parker, Pulev or Ruiz would tell us? He'd just dance around them easily.

I would have been interested to see Fury fight a younger Povetkin and a fight with Whyte would be interesting.

Hopefully Joshua and/or Fury fight Usyk in the not too distant future, really interested to see if Usyk can handle that step up.
 
combined list of top 15 opponents, in order of merit, top being the hardest:

1 - AJ / Fury Bt Klitschko
2 - AJ Bt Povetkin
3 - AJ Bt Ruiz
4 - AJ Bt Whyte
5 - Fury Bt Wilder
6 - AJ Bt Parker
7 - AJ Bt Pulev
8 - Wilder Bt Ortiz
9 - AJ/Wilder Bt Breazeale
10 - AJ Bt Martin
11 - Wilder Bt Stiverne
12 - Fury Bt Chisora
13 - AJ Bt Molina
14 - AJ Bt Takam
15 - Fury Bt Wallin


You can argue switching one or two around but the list is dominated by AJ with 11, Fury has 4 and Wilder has 3.
 
Lots of arguing here. I think nearly everyone has admitted that this could go either way.

Anyway, carry on. Not sure what any of this will prove.
 
You seem to be arguing with yourself. I'm not really pro Joshua or Fury, They're both good fighters with different styles.

I'll agree Joshua has probably fought more "top 10" fighters but that doesn't mean a lot as I think most are still pretty average. Was Pulvel "top 10"? He is poor. Look at how easily Joshua outboxed Ruiz (2nd time when he was focused) and Parker, they wouldn't get Fury in reality. Povetkin and Whyte are dangerous but that's about it.

It is a bit disingenuous to say the late 30's version of Klitschko who fought Fury was "past it". He was even older and in his 40's when he fought Joshua and very nearly beat him.
I'm not, you tried to discredit my post by trying to counter point 10, but missing 9 more important points.

I've always said they're likely very close/ equal, my point is against you or others who seem to undermine AJ's chances without any actual reason.

You don't think beating "top 10" fighters means much? What about ranks 15-40 and a load of 35-40 years olds? That better?

Pulev had only lost to a peak Klitchko, before AJ beat him and he had never doged anyone. He had also held two belts, which is one more than Wilder did.

AJ outboxed them because he's good.

There was only just over a year between when Fury and AJ beat Wlad, but they both faced him when he was a long time past his best, which was probably when he was early 30's.
 
combined list of top 15 opponents, in order of merit, top being the hardest:

1 - AJ / Fury Bt Klitschko
2 - AJ Bt Povetkin
3 - AJ Bt Ruiz
4 - AJ Bt Whyte
5 - Fury Bt Wilder
6 - AJ Bt Parker
7 - AJ Bt Pulev
8 - Wilder Bt Ortiz
9 - AJ/Wilder Bt Breazeale
10 - AJ Bt Martin
11 - Wilder Bt Stiverne
12 - Fury Bt Chisora
13 - AJ Bt Molina
14 - AJ Bt Takam
15 - Fury Bt Wallin


You can argue switching one or two around but the list is dominated by AJ with 11, Fury has 4 and Wilder has 3.
Great post, well summed up, that could have saved me a lot of time :ROFLMAO:
 
Of course Joshua has the better resume but that doesn't mean he's the better fighter.

I think Fury's 2 wins against a younger and fresher Chisora get down played a bit too, the older Chisora took Parker the distance, beat Takam, arguably beat Whyte in his first fight and was beating him in the rematch.

As someone said the way Fury handled Chisora makes me think he'd handle the smaller fighters like Whyte, Parker, Povetkin and Takam.

If you look at both fighters best wins you might say they are against Klitschko. Fury drew with and beat Wilder also. After those fighter's theres a drop off in the standard. I know Wilder isn't as skilled as someone like Povetkin but he was still very dangerous and with his punching power he was always classed as being on the same tier as AJ and Fury.

Joshua's record is better on paper because he's beaten more fighters from the second tier, people like Parker, Whyte etc. However if you are evaluating a fight then surely you've got to look at how AJ and Fury have looked against the absolute elite. Forget how poor Fury looks against poor fighters because he raises his game when he's fighting someone dangerous.
 
combined list of top 15 opponents, in order of merit, top being the hardest:

1 - AJ / Fury Bt Klitschko
2 - AJ Bt Povetkin
3 - AJ Bt Ruiz
4 - AJ Bt Whyte
5 - Fury Bt Wilder
6 - AJ Bt Parker
7 - AJ Bt Pulev
8 - Wilder Bt Ortiz
9 - AJ/Wilder Bt Breazeale
10 - AJ Bt Martin
11 - Wilder Bt Stiverne
12 - Fury Bt Chisora
13 - AJ Bt Molina
14 - AJ Bt Takam
15 - Fury Bt Wallin


You can argue switching one or two around but the list is dominated by AJ with 11, Fury has 4 and Wilder has 3.

Beating Whyte ranked higher than beating Wilder in America? Get a grip. 😂
 
Beating Whyte ranked higher than beating Wilder in America? Get a grip. 😂
Yes, it is, Wilder has zero record at all, he's beaten no one of note ever. He hasn't beaten a former world champ with a defence, he has boxed 2 top 10 ranked fighters Ortiz and Fury, a total of 18 rounds completed against Fury and 15 against Ortiz and he objectively lost 75%+ of those rounds.

Wilder is a bum, Whyte is a much better boxer and Wilder has dodged hi for about 3 years.
 
Of course Joshua has the better resume but that doesn't mean he's the better fighter.

I think Fury's 2 wins against a younger and fresher Chisora get down played a bit too, the older Chisora took Parker the distance, beat Takam, arguably beat Whyte in his first fight and was beating him in the rematch.

As someone said the way Fury handled Chisora makes me think he'd handle the smaller fighters like Whyte, Parker, Povetkin and Takam.

If you look at both fighters best wins you might say they are against Klitschko. Fury drew with and beat Wilder also. After those fighter's theres a drop off in the standard. I know Wilder isn't as skilled as someone like Povetkin but he was still very dangerous and with his punching power he was always classed as being on the same tier as AJ and Fury.

Joshua's record is better on paper because he's beaten more fighters from the second tier, people like Parker, Whyte etc. However if you are evaluating a fight then surely you've got to look at how AJ and Fury have looked against the absolute elite. Forget how poor Fury looks against poor fighters because he raises his game when he's fighting someone dangerous.
Good argument (y)

If you take Klitcko out of the equation then I suppose a lot of it comes down to how you rate Wilder, and I don't at all. He has no good wins, does not look classy/ have good technique, has not fought abroad, has fought nobody in the top 10 and gets extremely rattled when hit.

If I was trying to big up Fury I would probably play down on the Wilder win(s). The best thing to come out of that is how he got up after that hit, that's was phenomenal, but he made a big mistake letting it happen when he was so far ahead. For me Wilder isn't even top 5, and there are some newish fighters outside the top 10 that would probably give him a hiding too.

Parker and Whyte are far from mugs though, especially Whyte now, who is better that when he fought AJ, he's improved too. But yeah, the Fury height advantage would help against most of those apart from those with good chins who could get in close with Fury.

AJ doesn't have much of a height disadvantage against Fury so Fury will need to find a different way to beat him.

To me the fight rests on how much Fury gets in AJ's head, and he will get in his head, it's just a case of how much. If it's a lot then Fury wins, if he doesn't then I think AJ wins.

Should be cracking through, regardless, even more so for the rematch/ trilogy once they've fought each other once, it may be about who learns the most, the quickest. AJ might actually be in with a better shout if he does lose the first one.
 
Beating Whyte ranked higher than beating Wilder in America? Get a grip. 😂
I think Whyte would take Wilder, especially in the last year or two, and I think most would in the top 10, even more so if Wilder was man enough to leave the USA.

Windmills rarely work on good fighters, and every one he misses leaves the door wide open, and we know he can't take it after he gets hit himself.
 
Wilder was ranked above everyone mentioned on this thread apart from AJ and Fury before the Fury second fight... and that was with everyone's knowledge about his limitations.

Look at the Ortiz fights he was being outboxed both times but he found a way to win. Ortiz is a very good fighter as well.

Wilder isn't a good boxer, his footwork is poor and his record is padded with bums. However his power is absolutely devastating and its only after the second Fury fight that people are writing him off. Look at the pound for pound rankings before that Fury rematch and Wilder was rated way higher than people like Dilian Whyte.

A lot of fighters like Whyte and Andy Ruiz will fancy their chances with Wilder now because Fury created the blueprint, those fighter's could cause Wilder problems because he's not good on the backfoot. However they don't have the physical size to push him back like Fury or the ability to slip shots like Fury does.

I think someone like Whyte who is fairly easy to hit could end up getting badly knocked out by Wilder.

Calling Wilder a bum is just ridiculous.
 
I think Whyte would take Wilder, especially in the last year or two, and I think most would in the top 10, even more so if Wilder was man enough to leave the USA.

Windmills rarely work on good fighters, and every one he misses leaves the door wide open, and we know he can't take it after he gets hit himself.

Wilder fought in the UK before but that was at the start of his career, apart from that when did he need to leave the US?

He was the A side when he fought Fury and it was never seriously discussed about moving the fight oversees.

Obviously the Joshua fight is the big one but I think both fighters and promoters on both sides were at fault for that. Even AJ has admitted as such.

I don't think any fighter at that level is scared.
 
Wilder was ranked above everyone mentioned on this thread apart from AJ and Fury before the Fury second fight... and that was with everyone's knowledge about his limitations.

Look at the Ortiz fights he was being outboxed both times but he found a way to win. Ortiz is a very good fighter as well.

Wilder isn't a good boxer, his footwork is poor and his record is padded with bums. However his power is absolutely devastating and its only after the second Fury fight that people are writing him off. Look at the pound for pound rankings before that Fury rematch and Wilder was rated way higher than people like Dilian Whyte.

A lot of fighters like Whyte and Andy Ruiz will fancy their chances with Wilder now because Fury created the blueprint, those fighter's could cause Wilder problems because he's not good on the backfoot. However they don't have the physical size to push him back like Fury or the ability to slip shots like Fury does.

I think someone like Whyte who is fairly easy to hit could end up getting badly knocked out by Wilder.

Calling Wilder a bum is just ridiculous.
Wilder was ranked high as he had a belt, by beating an imposter, and then having LOADS of fights against extremely sub-par USA opponents. It's like Boro beating Scunthorpe 40 times and claiming we're world cup winners, it's a fallacy.

Ortiz? He's a bum hunter who was older than my grandad.

He only has power as he throws windmills, any boxer would have power if they threw windmills, most don't as they would get picked off against good fighters (when they eventually have to fight good fighters, wilder doged it for 40 fights). He looks like how a pub drunk/ bully gets his cummupence when they start on an actual boxer and get taken to the cleaners.

Whyte and Ruiz have a good chin though, and a better defence/ attack than the others that Wilder usually beats.
 
Wilder fought in the UK before but that was at the start of his career, apart from that when did he need to leave the US?

He was the A side when he fought Fury and it was never seriously discussed about moving the fight oversees.

Obviously the Joshua fight is the big one but I think both fighters and promoters on both sides were at fault for that. Even AJ has admitted as such.

I don't think any fighter at that level is scared.
He could have left the US to fight AJ or Fury at Wembley, maybe even Whyte, or gone to Dusseldorf?

The USA was the place to be due to previous historical fighters, but the bigger crowds and PPV's are in the UK now aren't they? He's living off the glories of former American greats imo.

Fury had 3 years off, and no belts, and pretty much had to go to USA to get his career on track, nobody knew what Fury was going to turn up, but it soon became apparent he was the real A-side.

Scared might not be the right word, probably efficient (with regards to pay) is probably the best way to put it. It's better for Wilder to dodge Europe and its fighters for as long as possible and just keep cashing cheques from USA nobodies. Much harder to do that in Europe, which is why AJ's had to fight most of the top 8. Fury would have to if he didn't need his time off.
 
People weren’t saying klitchsko was past it when fury got in the ring with Him. Fury beat the man. Also fury got a points decision in Germany, that shows how dominant he was

fury has the best wins on his cv. He’s beat the best ranked boxers

aj has a better overall cv as his faced a lot more top 10/20 fighters
 
No matter what argument you put forward some boxing fans in this country are so biased towards Eddie Hearn's fighters its untrue.
 
People weren’t saying klitchsko was past it when fury got in the ring with Him. Fury beat the man. Also fury got a points decision in Germany, that shows how dominant he was

fury has the best wins on his cv. He’s beat the best ranked boxers

aj has a better overall cv as his faced a lot more top 10/20 fighters
No, of course not, as it was still a great result, but it doesn't mean it's not a fact. Wlad had more experience then, but was never going to be the same as when he and his bro were dominant. To be honest I think Fury largely beat him by getting in his head pre-fight, which should be AJ's main worry.

Depends who is doing the ranking and how it's attained, if you do a search of the most overrated fighters of all time Deontay is on every list that I've seen, with good reason.
 
No matter what argument you put forward some boxing fans in this country are so biased towards Eddie Hearn's fighters its untrue.
Why would that matter to anyone? It's not even worth 1% of the consideration, other than Hearn doesn't seem to be against AJ putting it on the line against top 10's, and you couldn't say he's milked it anything like Wilder?

Furys' fought a few nobody's since Wlad and between Wilder fights, but nobody could really argue with that as he's either been off with his troubles or was at a time where AJ had other fights. The two between the Widler fights were basically just stop gaps/ warm ups where he didn't want to risk anything, which is to be expected.
 
Or people are so biased against Eddie Hearns fighters ?
It's funny, that wasn't even one ounce of my consideration in any of the previous posts, obviously plays a part in some peoples eyes though, no idea why its even relevant?
 
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