Universal Basic Income

I read (on twitter so make of it what you will) that the NAACP are trying to reclaim the word 'woke' as its true/original meaning was black emancipation, the black community using their vote, voice & money to support other members of the community.

Everything since then has been misapprehension & then use by white people to show support for various causes or as an insult for supporting various causes.

I guess that is the beauty of the english language.
 
Facefuzz said:
UBI is that. It’s basic income. The income to get by, food, clothes, roof and energy.
£1600 is not basic and is not much less than a lot of people’s take home pay for a full time job.
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Then we have to look at upping the minimum wage.

Oh and before you start talking shyte about inflation, those at the bottom of the pay scale don't affect it.

It seems that being civilised is a difficult concept for so many of the population, they're only happy if they're doing better than somebody else.
 
SilentProf said:
It’s inevitable. All jobs will be made redundant as machines or software become cheaper and more capable than people. At that point we either let people starve or give them something to live on.
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What about all of the survival of the fittest propaganda that we've had for half a century, soaked up by quite a few on here by the sounds of it?

Isn't the ever decreasing circle of power and wealth the way forward, the rest can fight each other for the scraps.
 
Facefuzz said:
don’t have any but it’s common sense isn’t it. If £1600 is the new start point then prices go up to reflect. The downside is unemployment in lower paid jobs goes up so there’s less tax to fund the free money. It just stinks of the self entitled society we now live in where everybody thinks they should have the newest car, phone, holiday etc without working for it
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:confused: such a disappointing world we live in.

EDIT: Facefuzz, as you have liked this post, I should clarify, I find your position about self entitlement sad. A lot of people struggling don't think this way, its about just being able to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads.

I'm an advocate for UBI, but it needs a lot of regulation in other areas to ensure that it doesn't just push up baseline costs for everyone else and companies/landlords/et al don't take advantage of these guaranteed income streams.
 
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newusername said:
I read (on twitter so make of it what you will) that the NAACP are trying to reclaim the word 'woke' as its true/original meaning was black emancipation, the black community using their vote, voice & money to support other members of the community.

Everything since then has been misapprehension & then use by white people to show support for various causes or as an insult for supporting various causes.

I guess that is the beauty of the english language.
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It is amazing how often the English language gets misused, but no surprise given the variety of words with the same or slightly nuanced meanings. The word WOKE is commonly misused in a derogatory way by folks who think that some other people are very easily upset on matters surrounding social or political issues, like racism, often rattling on about such issues in a way that places them on some sort of moral high ground yet never achieves anything. I suppose much like the word or term GAMMON gets misused to describe brexit voters. I’d be surprised if there weren’t any people around who get upset at the misuse of the word woke but have been happy to misuse the word ‘gammon’ and vice versa. It is indeed a funny old language.
 
I think one of two things would happen

1. Prices rise to accommodate the fact everyone is £1600 better off
2. Wages come down to reflect you're already getting £1600.

Also where does this then stand with the minimum wage? does it get abolished?

All I can see is big business getting richer either way
 
Colgates_shaving_foam said:
I feel a bit sorry for people who derive their sense of self worth from looking down on people who have materially less than themselves.

Unfortunately we have a hell of a lot of these people living amongst us.
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It’s not about looking down on anybody who has materially less. It’s about getting what you earn. There are gps, barristers, engineers who all have more than me. I don’t begrudge them, they’ve earned it. I should have stuck in at school, went to college and uni but I didn’t. Likewise there are sportsman who have more than me. They earned it. Fair play.

To give some people almost a months wage for doing nothing stinks.
If everybody gets £1600, you, me, David Beckham, then what’s the point in £1600? It will just drive up inflation so that £1600 is the new low starting point.
 
BaronSmoggie said:
:confused: such a disappointing world we live in.

EDIT: Facefuzz, as you have liked this post, I should clarify, I find your position about self entitlement sad. A lot of people struggling don't think this way, its about just being able to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads.

I'm an advocate for UBI, but it needs a lot of regulation in other areas to ensure that it doesn't just push up baseline costs for everyone else and companies/landlords/et al don't take advantage of these guaranteed income streams.
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Fully agree.
There is of course difference about the items I listed like phone, cars and holidays and what you listed like food and accommodation so you’re talking about 2 different things.
I of course stand by my initial post and also agree with you
 
Facefuzz said:
It’s not about looking down on anybody who has materially less. It’s about getting what you earn. There are gps, barristers, engineers who all have more than me. I don’t begrudge them, they’ve earned it. I should have stuck in at school, went to college and uni but I didn’t. Likewise there are sportsman who have more than me. They earned it. Fair play.

To give some people almost a months wage for doing nothing stinks.
If everybody gets £1600, you, me, David Beckham, then what’s the point in £1600? It will just drive up inflation so that £1600 is the new low starting point.
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This is nonsense to be honest. There is nothing fair about a city banker getting 100x what a nurse does, that's not about hard work - a nurse works much harder than a banker and is worth a lot more to society. Same goes for those in really key roles - teachers, social workers, doctors etc.

There should be some way to address these societal injustices. This is just a trial of set amount, if you bothered to look into it you'd see there are all sorts of models of scaling amounts that could be used.
 
Facefuzz said:
To give some people almost a months wage for doing nothing stinks.
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I know that's what this trial is doing, but when people actually advocate UBI as a long term policy, it's a pretty important detail that it's Universal. So not just some people, every person.

I.e. you'd still be better off in work than a person who is out of work. And people with the highest paid jobs would still be better off again - whether it's all deserved and earned or not.
 
Facefuzz said:
It’s not about looking down on anybody who has materially less. It’s about getting what you earn. There are gps, barristers, engineers who all have more than me. I don’t begrudge them, they’ve earned it. I should have stuck in at school, went to college and uni but I didn’t. Likewise there are sportsman who have more than me. They earned it. Fair play.

To give some people almost a months wage for doing nothing stinks.
If everybody gets £1600, you, me, David Beckham, then what’s the point in £1600? It will just drive up inflation so that £1600 is the new low starting point.
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Let's see what the trial shows but I think very few people 'do nothing'. There are millions of unpaid carers in this country, a UBI takes them out of poverty for a start.

Yep, everyone would get it, that's the beauty of it, means that an unhappy person earning a good wage can take time out to retrain instead of being trapped on life's hamster wheel as they are now.

Means people suffering domestic violence are less trapped and are more able to break free.

There's so many upsides to it but let's see what the study shows.
 
Facefuzz said:
So if there’s a valid counter argument and you don’t agree with it you still change your mind just to agree with others?
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But you haven't explained why you are against addressing societal injustice, you've just shouted 'woke' at people.
 
Everybody receives £1600 whether they are in work or not. For those out of work the £1600 replaces all the different benefits that they were receiving. This means that a lot of money is saved on administrating benefits, paying for DWP offices, staff and contractors, heating and lighting costs, business rates etc. Health will be improved by not worrying and stressing about bills and bullying from DWP. Nobody is getting more than anybody in work and the minimum wage need not be altered as a poster suggested further up. People would be able to take low paid jobs such as carers etc, retrain without worrying about losing money, leave abusive partners. Even if it does cost a bit more, it will be well worth it.
 
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