Fry is better than leninhan

Also another thing worth remembering when critiquing our defenders is the midfield issues. We are definitely missing a midfielder, if not two, and that impacts on the defenders IMO. We saw how the balance of our side improved when Clarke came in. Ease an orthodox defensive midfielder into our side and the back-line will improve as a result.

I think at the moment, they’re still working out when to step out, when to step up into midfield, when to pass it and when to go long. I think you have to give them some time to work these things out. A weakness in midfield impacts on the decisions made by players in other areas as they might try and cover or overcompensate for something. It will work itself out though.

You’d also say that this team has gone from needing 5, 6, 7 additions to needing 2, maybe 3 good additions. That’s huge progress IMO.
 
My back 3 would be Dijksteel - Fry - Clarke. They are the best we have in their correct positions. I would bench McNair but he is then good cover in case we get any injuries at the back plus he could come on and replace a midfield player when they are out on their feet. As they are in the second half of most games.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Also another thing worth remembering when critiquing our defenders is the midfield issues. We are definitely missing a midfielder, if not two, and that impacts on the defenders IMO. We saw how the balance of our side improved when Clarke came in. Ease an orthodox defensive midfielder into our side and the back-line will improve as a result.

I think at the moment, they’re still working out when to step out, when to step up into midfield, when to pass it and when to go long. I think you have to give them some time to work these things out. A weakness in midfield impacts on the decisions made by players in other areas as they might try and cover or overcompensate for something. It will work itself out though.

You’d also say that this team has gone from needing 5, 6, 7 additions to needing 2, maybe 3 good additions. That’s huge progress IMO.
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Think this is key. If we'd signed an out and out CDM in the window it's a different consideration with the three centre halves.

Our play in transition was poor last night - we're strong in the opposition's defensive third with the press but if they evade that we're nearly always in trouble. The balance of pressing in midfield is off for me at the moment, so many times last night when the ball was turned over and they were in on goal with a couple of passes.

A half decent outfit would have crucified us.
 
FatCat said:
Totally agree with this - he’s very wasteful going forward he just doesn’t know what to do so hoofs it - those claiming he was man of the match must be watching a different game to me! He defended well - for a big guy he offers little threat in the opposition box from corners, whereas I think Lenihan does offer more in that department.
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Same applies to Roberts, to a similar degree, his handling was exceptional last night, but he often launches it too, and way too far a lot of the time. His handling on crosses looks better than Steffan, but Steffan doesn't look bad at that, but Steffen is great with his feet. When he gets it, we don't lose it again.

It's all well and good winning the ball (it's absolutely necessary), but if you give it straight back you're just taking a defensive 20-yard position, and moving the ball up to the opposition having it on halfway, or rolling an unequal dice at best.

We also need to factor in that Muniz is very good, and strong, with good control, but he's not a lighthouse, and he is also largely on his own. With playing a 10 even if Muniz does win it, it's more likely to end up with their man (no fault of Muniz). If we had someone higher alongside him, so they were both level then it would work better, but then there would be less space in the channels (which we're good at exploiting). It's not possible for Giles and Jones to go from our 20 yard line to theirs, in the time it takes for the defender or keeper to launch it.

Just minor tweaks, we're not far off at all.
 
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I only half agree with the above - There are times to play it out of your box, and there are times to "hoof it". Defending 101 is "if in doubt, kick it out"...

I agree Fry is a great defender, but maybe not the best "footballer" which is why CW prefers Lenihan, but I think we need that balance.

Clarke was trying to play it out every chance he got - and although I like him - he made ne nervous at times. Fry doesn't make me nervous doing what he does.
 
Perhaps it’s better judge the back 3 has a whole rather than individually. Im
Not surprised we’ve just won and kept a clean sheet in a back 3 that fry is a part of .
 
Clarke Lenihan Fry for me, Dijksteel has far more mistakes in him than anyone else in the side, think he's quite clumsy and gets himself in trouble quite often.
 
VestasBoro said:
Clarke Lenihan Fry for me, Dijksteel has far more mistakes in him than anyone else in the side, think he's quite clumsy and gets himself in trouble quite often.
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Fry can't play it out from the back. He's only suited to the centre role in my opinion.

Last nights back three would be my choice. McNair - Fry - Clarke, although I'm also happy with Dijksteel - Fry - Clarke.
 
Andy_W said:
Fry defended well last night (one of the best I've seen him at actual defending I thought), but to be fair he did have a lot of moments to make himself look good, no defensive mistakes though. He still played far too many long balls for me mind (to Sunderland), and it was us giving up possession which led to us having to defend over and over again.

Don't think I've seen Lenihan make any real mistakes yet, nor have I seen him launch the ball to the opposition.

Don't discount Lenihans leadership either.

Wish Fry would sort out his distribution and could play RCB, it would free up Dijksteele and McNair for other areas (which would be really important to us with no midfield cover).
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Lenihan has been poor and not at all what I expected.
First clean sheet. Just saying.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
Lenihan, Fry and Clarke are all learning a new system and style of play. Once they become accustomed to what the manager wants and what the style of play demands and depends upon, they’ll each get better.

You have to give players room to settle, learn and develop. They’re three very good Championship centre backs IMO. We’re in a good position back there with Dijksteel in the mix as well.

Again, though, it’s the rush to definitive judgment. Writing Lenihan off after two or three games, building up Clarke after two matches. Roberts is being built up today but you know as soon as he drops a cross or gets beaten at his near post he’ll be absolutely slaughtered on here. Likewise Fry. I’ve seen him get absolute pelters on here over the past year or two but now he’s Baresi again because he kept a young Sunderland striker quiet.

I think we just need to remember that these lads are playing in the second tier for a reason. They’re good players but might make a mistake now and then. You have to let them have the room to make that mistake and then hopefully learn and improve and not repeat them. If you want Lenihan, Fry and/or Clarke or any other Boro players to deliver faultless performances week after week then you’re going to be disappointed because it’s just not going to happen. If that was the case they’d be playing in the Premier League.
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unfortunately you cant learn pace from the manager both clarke and lenihan will never be great defenders for that reason
 
From what Ive seen of Lenihan so far Fry is miles better.

Playing 3 CB's we will need 5 over a full season.
 
indeedido said:
Lenihan has been poor and not at all what I expected.
First clean sheet. Just saying.
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Poor, how?
Surely you have a long list of mistakes or flaws in his game that you can reel right off?
What did you expect?

Blackburn supporters were gutted to lose him, after 10 years (a good length of time to form an opinion), Mowbray loved him (played him for 5 years, he knows what he's doing), and Wilder clearly wanted him (he knows what he's doing), I'd be trusting in that, more than 5 games or whatever.

It's a team game, the reason we kept a clean sheet is that we sat back a bit more, and it was only the second game at home, against an average side. They only had one semi-recognised forward, he's hardly at the level of the other strikers we've played up to now. I'd have been 100% confident we would have got a result with Lenihan, and we would have likely kept the ball better.

Again, not saying he's better or worse than Fry at defending (and I like Fry, for what he does), and it's hard to know as they don't play the same position, at the same time, against the same team. Defending isn't the only part of the game either.
 
VestasBoro said:
Clarke Lenihan Fry for me, Dijksteel has far more mistakes in him than anyone else in the side, think he's quite clumsy and gets himself in trouble quite often.
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I really like Dijksteele, especially his pace which is supremely important when we get countered or Jones loses the ball. Jones will lose the ball and get caught out, it happens to wingers, and it's worth us letting Jones get forward as often as possible.

I wouldn't be against Fry going RCB though, it's a waste not playing him, but I'd want to be seeing us use Dijksteele elsewhere, yes he can make the odd mistake but we get a lot from him going forward and he's good at clearing up after others.
 
Thought Fry was outstanding and he is a really impressive ‘man marker’, best in the league for me. Did it impressively against some big players in the cup last year and I thought he had Simms in his back pocket last night. Simms will be glad he only faces him twice a season and will have had nightmares last night that he was going to wake up with Fry standing at the end of his bed!
First to every ball and Simms was never going to be allowed to get past him. Would always start him in a one to one marking job on an opposition danger man. His distribution still leaves a lot to be desired, quite a few aimless punts up the right last nigh, but can’t fault his defending which is his main job.
 
changingman said:
A half decent outfit would have crucified us.
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Yeah, one nil against a newly promoted team who lost their main guy 15 minutes before kick off. I’ll take it and they all count but we’ve missed out on two or three big players in the window and it’s only natural to think of what could have been.

We can only hop that done of the youngsters can step up when called upon!
 
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