Im not a Police hater by any means, but.....

LaPennaBianca said:
Well I'm not saying that, am I? My point is that the police don't face robust internal scrutiny.

Do you honestly think that the police in this country are sufficiently held to account?

If you do, look up who the head of the Met is and what they were responsible for in 2005.
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If you don't belive the police don't face robust oversight then you obviously ate properly informed.
 
I wonder if some officers become jaded after dealing with certain types of people and just jump straight to the presumption of 'wrong 'un.' I've met more nice coppers as ones I didn't like in social circles, just as you'd find wallies in any working environment.

Old flatmate of mine got banged up for the night after coming out of a takeaway and literally into the middle of a brawl. Had a pizza in his hands, nose broken by one of these blokes he didn't know, yet was the only one arrested while they scarpered; he was shoved in a car covered in blood. The next morning another officer apologised for his colleague being a prat and dropped him off in his own car as he lived fairly near us. There are definitely ones who still care about people.
 
Randy said:
What would you expect to happen to the officer involved in the video I shared earlier?
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Haven't watched it, but like all professions it's made up of people who are fallible and make mistakes.

I know that police officers are videoed daily, which some people will think is good thing, but it's too often used to humiliate and the Internet is full of examples of this.
 
Had some bad experiences with police. Once as a young man stopped at virgina gardens walking back from my girlfirends and was arrested because I wouldn't or couldn't provide ID and I wouldn't empty my pockets.

Once in manchester when a patrol car stopped my car late on a sunday evening to find out if I had been drinking. He asked 4 or 5 times, asked for id I had none with me as I had gone into work for what I thought was an hour and ended up staying all day and part of the night. He was in my face sniffing my breath and kept asking how much I had had to drink that evening.

Once in a fight in Plymouth, where to be fair the police were probably just trying to de-escalate the situation. I was arrested for assaulting a police officer as I knocked his hat off, accidentally.
 
On the plus side, we live near a firestation and they have an emergency services open day every year. The police are always great with the kids.

The last one we went to, the fire brigade rescued a couple of kids who had crashed whilst joy riding, they got the kids out, who then legged it and were chased by the police in a Benny Hill scene.

One thing to note, when did the police start recruiting 15 year olds.
 
Laughing said:
On the plus side, we live near a firestation and they have an emergency services open day every year. The police are always great with the kids.

The last one we went to, the fire brigade rescued a couple of kids who had crashed whilst joy riding, they got the kids out, who then legged it and were chased by the police in a Benny Hill scene.

One thing to note, when did the police start recruiting 15 year olds.
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When you started to get old 😂
 
LaPennaBianca said:
Yes. The fact that she was head of an operation that led to killing of an innocent man - and has since risen to the head of the organisation that killed him highlights that such incidents obviously aren't career obstacles.
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I think they often are, but in this case she wasn't found to be culpable, nor was anyone else involved. It was a series of coincidental events, against the backdrop of intelligence that suggested another terror attack after the 7/7 bombings.

It was tragic, of course it was, but that what terrorism seeks to achieve - to destabilise and undermine society through their actions. The inference and fear of terrorism is immeasurable.

I've often thought abut the events that led to De Menezes death and asked myself whether anything could have been done differently. I'm not sure there were any serious individual failings, rather than a series of aggregated procedural ones.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
I think they often are, but in this case she wasn't found to be culpable, nor was anyone else involved. It was a series of coincidental events, against the backdrop of intelligence that suggested another terror attack after the 7/7 bombings.

It was tragic, of course it was, but that what terrorism seeks to achieve - to destabilise and undermine society through their actions. The inference and fear of terrorism is immeasurable.

I've often thought abut the events that led to De Menezes death and asked myself whether anything could have been done differently. I'm not sure there were any serious individual failings, rather than a series of aggregated procedural ones.
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I don't think we can blame terrorism for the Met refusing to cooperate with the enquiry and lobbying MPs to influence the enquiry.

In terms of what could have been done differently: not shooting an innocent man eleven times over a thirty second period with hollow point bullets when the opportunity to restrain him was there. I'm sorry to be so blunt - but this guy was an electrician who died at the hands of the police.

And this brings me back to my entire point. I can't understand how any organisation that can commit such a series of easily avoidable aggregated procedural failings and not be reorganised from root to branch.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
I don't think we can blame terrorism for the Met refusing to cooperate with the enquiry and lobbying MPs to influence the enquiry.

In terms of what could have been done differently: not shooting an innocent man eleven times over a thirty second period with hollow point bullets when the opportunity to restrain him was there. I'm sorry to be so blunt - but this guy was an electrician who died at the hands of the police.

And this brings me back to my entire point. I can't understand how any organisation that can commit such a series of easily avoidable aggregated procedural failings and not be reorganised from root to branch.
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I agree with you generally LaPenna, but they couldn't restrain someone believing he had a bomb. The errors had already been made there, the officers executing him didn't have a lot of choice, I don't think.
 
It always surprises me when there are videos like this just how uninformed the police are or they know the law and just try it on. It takes a few minutes googling to see that the lad was in the right, how can the police officer not know this.

that being said isnt it just easier to comply with the police, it will take you a few minutes and then you can get on with your day. (I know you don’t have to)

I looked into being a special and got so far down the process before deciding it was not for me - the administration of the whole thing was shocking. Every serving or past officer I spoke to said if you are joining thinking you can make a difference then forget it. You will be spat at and generally verbally abused most days and much worse. With that sort of backdrop then I guess some officers are fed up and jump the gun like the guy in the video. I’m not excusing it just offering up my thoughts.

I would love to see where we are with the 20000 new police officers - I’d be surprised if they have recruited a quarter of that and it must be about a year ago that Boris was quoting that figure - is there any way to check?
 
Pay peanuts, get monkeys

Same with care home workers, social workers etc etc
Give them a proper wage and demand certain standards. Or pay them a pittance and get a bad attitude from those few who should not even be in the job.
The majority of coppers are fantastic, deserving the upmost respect, but lots are leaving - this is what happens.
What do people expect? More cuts will lead to a better service?
 
LaPennaBianca said:
I don't think we can blame terrorism for the Met refusing to cooperate with the enquiry and lobbying MPs to influence the enquiry.

In terms of what could have been done differently: not shooting an innocent man eleven times over a thirty second period with hollow point bullets when the opportunity to restrain him was there. I'm sorry to be so blunt - but this guy was an electrician who died at the hands of the police.

And this brings me back to my entire point. I can't understand how any organisation that can commit such a series of easily avoidable aggregated procedural failings and not be reorganised from root to branch.
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Being blunt equates to being entirely simplistic.

If it's so apparently obvious what should have been done differently I'm bound to ask, what? They acted on the intelligence they had at that material time; its entirely different, not to mention easier, to make decisions with absolute hindsight, armed with facts that weren't known at the time. They believed he was an active terrorist, intent on murdering scores of people. I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision to shoot, or not, because either option carries massive risks and potentially career ending scrutiny, even criminal prosecution. How often does you job carry these risks I wonder?

The influence terrorism has is to create the situation in the first place - the 7/7 attacks were only a matter of days earlier and, in terms if the police and army activities, still on-going.

The reason why the the MPS were against the IPCC investigating this is because they are (and to a lesser degree now), inept. The operation involved army intelligence, in addition to police intelligence and having that shared with the IPCC, together with the tactics used was, they felt, an unacceptable risk.

And in terms of the 'hollow point' bullets point, and the suggestion he could have been 'restrained', then I can only say, with respect, that is an incredibly naive comment - once the decision is taken, given the circumstances, restraint isn't an option. Even the IPCC acknowledged this.
 
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