Labour Party exposee

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
It didn't matter about getting the tories out the last few times but now it does 🤪(y)

Good old centrists. Who wouldn't trust them? You'd have to have a heart of stone. Now don't read that book, any of the reports or watch the new documentary. Just vote for Keir and strap yourself in for ✨covid savings bonds✨
Er nearly 13 million Labour voters put a cross against a Corbyn led Labour Party in 2017.

Don‘t tell me there weren‘t any centrists in there?

Most will be like me, neither centrist or left (or right), non card carrying, non activists who just go to work every day, pay their taxes and want a fair and orderly society.

Appreciate there may be a few ideologists on here but you are the very tiny minority compared to the average voter.
 

Scrote

Well-known member
Most will be like me, neither centrist or left (or right), non card carrying, non activists who just go to work every day, pay their taxes and want a fair and orderly society.
If most were like that then we'd have had a Corbyn led government. The problem is that most aren't like that. And enough of the not like thats are now realising that they too might suffer.

As with Brexit, they were warned. They thought they'd be above the watermark when then tide settled. Now they're neck deep and slowly going under it's suddenly imperative that the people that tried to stop it happening throw their lot in with those that caused it to happen.

Tough. You reap what you sow.
 

Scrote

Well-known member
I will not name the councillor without her permission. This was 2018, so I’m not going to raise the subject again.
You're not going to raise the subject again, having raised the subject again?

We just have to take your word for it that something terrible happened four years ago, but, despite every news office in the land desperately looking for a reason to smear Momentum, nobody knew about it. Okay.

I think the adjective puerile was reasonably accurate, many faults I may have, but paucity of lexicon is not one.
The ability to use words that clearly communicate your thoughts is a skill.

Having a large vocabulary that you randomly chuck about shows a paucity of wisdom c.f. Johnson, Boris; or intellect c.f. Mogg, Jacob Rees-.

In other words, it would behoove you to rein in your ultracrepidarian perniciuos fatuousness.
 

Nobby_Barnes

Well-known member
You're not going to raise the subject again, having raised the subject again?

We just have to take your word for it that something terrible happened four years ago, but, despite every news office in the land desperately looking for a reason to smear Momentum, nobody knew about it. Okay.


The ability to use words that clearly communicate your thoughts is a skill.

Having a large vocabulary that you randomly chuck about shows a paucity of wisdom c.f. Johnson, Boris; or intellect c.f. Mogg, Jacob Rees-.

In other words, it would behoove you to rein in your ultracrepidarian perniciuos fatuousness.
SocraTees ?
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
If most were like that then we'd have had a Corbyn led government. The problem is that most aren't like that. And enough of the not like thats are now realising that they too might suffer.

As with Brexit, they were warned. They thought they'd be above the watermark when then tide settled. Now they're neck deep and slowly going under it's suddenly imperative that the people that tried to stop it happening throw their lot in with those that caused it to happen.

Tough. You reap what you sow.
We will have to agree to disagree but I think you are completely wrong.

I also believe many voters aleays vote for the same party no matter what and that most of the floaters make up their minds in the few weeks running up to an election.

Corbyn turned over a 20% deficit in the opinion polls in 4 weeks in 2017 to nearly win against Theresa May.

99.9% of people in this country are not activists.
 

jam69

Well-known member
At the end of the day tge only thing that really matters is what a party will do in power, we are seeing what truss government stand for, they have gone all out to line the pockets of the richest, more than any other tory government in the last 60 years , they are not even trying to hide it, they don't think they have to anymore after seeing chunks of the public supporting them no matter how bad they are.
A labour led government simply wouldn't do that.
The tory party have always profited by the fractured working classes .
To allow this government to continue unchecked is criminal.
 

Scrote

Well-known member
We will have to agree to disagree but I think you are completely wrong.
If I was wrong then we'd have had a Corbyn led Government in 2019.

We'd have had a Corbyn led government in 2017.

We would have had a Miliband led government in 2015.

When you say 99.9% of people aren't activists I'm inclined to agree (although I'd expect the number of activists is a tad higher). However, that misses the point I was making. If 'most' people don't care about politics until it affects them directly then they 'deserve' to suffer in the same way that millions of others were made to suffer due to their utter lack of care.

I'd rather no-one suffered due to bad (in my view) political decisions. I'm not going to be bullied, cajoled or gas-lit into voting for a party that I think will make more bad political decisions based on their past record e.g. this:

I believe he was referring more to those within the party who were actively acting to lose two elections.
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
they have gone all out to line the pockets of the richest...
A labour led government simply wouldn't do that.

Find this naive in the extreme Jam. Of course there's a better than even chance a Labour government will line the pockets of the richest at everyone elses expense. It's exactly what the last Labour government did and it's exactly what Starmer keeps saying he'll do.
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
If I was wrong then we'd have had a Corbyn led Government in 2019.

We'd have had a Corbyn led government in 2017.

We would have had a Miliband led government in 2015.

When you say 99.9% of people aren't activists I'm inclined to agree (although I'd expect the number of activists is a tad higher). However, that misses the point I was making. If 'most' people don't care about politics until it affects them directly then they 'deserve' to suffer in the same way that millions of others were made to suffer due to their utter lack of care.

I'd rather no-one suffered due to bad (in my view) political decisions. I'm not going to be bullied, cajoled or gas-lit into voting for a party that I think will make more bad political decisions based on their past record e.g. this:
Sorry if I misunderstood your post but I still don’t think I follow what you are saying.

Are you saying that if the general public did not vote Labour 2015, 2017 and 2019 then they get what is coming and you have no sympathy?
 

Scrote

Well-known member
Are you saying that if the general public did not vote Labour 2015, 2017 and 2019 then they get what is coming and you have no sympathy?
It's not so much a lack of sympathy as a rejection of the argument that I'm going to be in some way to blame if I choose not to vote for more of the same, just with better marketing.

The general public (non-activists) had at least three opportunities to prevent the current mess and chose not to, because the "fair and orderly" they wanted only applied to themselves. They didn't want "fair and orderly" for everyone.

The more extreme the current Tory pillage & plunder gets, the more extreme the pendulum swing needs to be to get anything approaching a reset.

As an aside but hopefully to give some perspective, I went along to the first big march against Brexit through London. When I eventually got back to Redcar I found out that I'd been one of millions protesting against Corbyn and backing Change UK and the Centrist wet-dream. I was there to protest against Brexit. I was used as an unwilling pawn in the attempted coups against Corbyn. I won't make the same mistake again.

A vote, from me, for Starmer's Labour, will be taken as explicit support for the current Labour hierarchy. There will be no room for 'get the Tories out' nuance after the fact.

If you want my vote, offer me something to vote for. Not just something to vote against.
 

HolgateCorner

Well-known member
It's not so much a lack of sympathy as a rejection of the argument that I'm going to be in some way to blame if I choose not to vote for more of the same, just with better marketing.

The general public (non-activists) had at least three opportunities to prevent the current mess and chose not to, because the "fair and orderly" they wanted only applied to themselves. They didn't want "fair and orderly" for everyone.

The more extreme the current Tory pillage & plunder gets, the more extreme the pendulum swing needs to be to get anything approaching a reset.

As an aside but hopefully to give some perspective, I went along to the first big march against Brexit through London. When I eventually got back to Redcar I found out that I'd been one of millions protesting against Corbyn and backing Change UK and the Centrist wet-dream. I was there to protest against Brexit. I was used as an unwilling pawn in the attempted coups against Corbyn. I won't make the same mistake again.

A vote, from me, for Starmer's Labour, will be taken as explicit support for the current Labour hierarchy. There will be no room for 'get the Tories out' nuance after the fact.

If you want my vote, offer me something to vote for. Not just something to vote against.
Fair comment, I think I understand now.

We all only have one vote though and to win an election Labour need to gather in a broad cross section of the population, even more now with the fascist SNP somehow hoovering up votes in Scotland.

I think you are into it far more deeply than me, I voted for Milliband, Corbyn (twice) and I will vote for Starmer, I’ve not had any problem supporting any Labour leader but other than what I sometimes read on here I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.
 

Scrug

Well-known member
Things will get much worse under the Tories. Things will probably get a little worse under Labour.

Think we need a revolution don’t we?
 

exiledinboro

Well-known member
I'm genuinely at a loss as to why the right hate the left so much within their own party 🤷🏻‍♂️ Ruthsayer after hearing the lengths and lies and fabricated events by the right of course you would be asked which member, or councillor/ex MP or branch the spitting event took place that you alledge; because it sounds like people will make up stories to attack the left so the left has a right to defend itself.
Or has he gone Nobby? 🤔

The other worry is the press and that BBC documentary. And I quite like the beeb

And tonights episode is meant to be specifically about Starmer and ongoing racism 🤦‍♂️

But yeah of course a Labour government will be better than the current one. Lizz Truss looks like she is tanking the Tories in the polls so she might not last long 🤞
 

BlindBoyGrunt

Well-known member
I must say, after watching the second episode of this documentary, that anyone watching with an open mind must surely come away questioning their intention to vote for this Labour party. Even if they are not convinced, the seeds of doubt must be propagating.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
Thankfully on threads like these, of which there have been many, it's only a few voices on here who wouldn't vote Labour to get the Tories out.

They have their principles, fair enough. I still can't understand though how the left would rather the right in power to do further damage to the country just so a centre left led party don't get in. Or the notion that as the damage is already done there is no point changing anything unless it's their man - not really in keeping with Socialism is it? More like 'I'm alright Jack'.

They say the far left is as bad as the far right - threads like this just show that this is likely true. Their ideologies are more important than their fellow citizens.
 

BlindBoyGrunt

Well-known member
Thankfully on threads like these, of which there have been many, it's only a few voices on here who wouldn't vote Labour to get the Tories out.

They have their principles, fair enough. I still can't understand though how the left would rather the right in power to do further damage to the country just so a centre left led party don't get in. Or the notion that as the damage is already done there is no point changing anything unless it's their man - not really in keeping with Socialism is it? More like 'I'm alright Jack'.

They say the far left is as bad as the far right - threads like this just show that this is likely true. Their ideologies are more important than their fellow citizens.
And what strong words do you have for the MPs and party executives who weaponised anti-Semitism and sabotaged two general elections?

I won't be voting Labour because the party is a corrupt racist cesspit that backs Israel in everything it does whilst suspending or expelling left wing Jews who speak up for Palestinians

I'm comfortable with my stance; it wasn't us that inflicted the country with 5 or 10 more years of Tory rule, it was them. If I was still a party member I would be regarded as an undesirable, but even as they kicked me out the door they would be begging for reassurance that I would lend them my vote.

Politics in this country needs resetting and voting Labour won't achieve that.
 
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