When will we stop asking people who are asymptomatic or have only mild symptoms to isolate?

Expat Smoggie said:
It is quite strange that after all the news that the vaccines are safe that healthcare workers don’t want this so-called vaccine pumped into their bodies. Moreover, the more this disease mutates you feel that our health systems won’t be able to cope not because of the actual disease but because we won’t have qualified healthcare workers who will be allowed to work if they refuse the vaccines.
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What kind of percentage are you talking about who aren't getting vaccinated? I have only found one article - about the US - that suggests about 90% of nurses are vaccinated.
 
Randy said:
No. You are misreading my point.
Plus getting vaccinated does not stop the spread of the virus, it may help a little bit, but it still spreads willfully between those who are and aren't vaccinated. The CDC for example has recently advised people to stop taking cruise holidays because of the spread of the virus. Cruise liners have required full vaccination from its clients since they started up holidays again. You can't pin the blame of the spread of the virus on the unvaccinated.

UBI gives those who feel it isn't safe to resume normal life, protection and it also gives those who feels it safe to resume their lives the protection that they won't be put into restrictive measures and the health and financial punishments that they come with.

Which brings me onto Boris's new year's video. Why hasn't anyone at the top tier of government and the national health service wether that me ministers or advisors or doctors or nurses advocated healthy living as a weapon to combat the virus? All we hear and read is 'get the vaccine'. Obviously getting the vaccine is a great help towards protecting yourself from illness or death but so is a healthy diet, vitamin supplements, exercise, fresh air. Not once have we seen a press conference telling the population these things.

Boris said in so many words it's easier to get a vaccine than it is to lose weight. That's a very dangerous statement to make.
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Obesity is a huge risk with Covid. It is also a growing problem, no pun intended.
Chris_Boro said:
Here's an idea, why don't those who refuse vaccinations or are unwilling to comply with basic guidelines "shield" themselves?

After all, you are the vulnerable ones now. Let us live our lives as we did pre covid.

Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it?
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I wouldn’t have any problem with restricting those who chose not to be vaccinated.
 
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Randy said:
No. You are misreading my point.
Plus getting vaccinated does not stop the spread of the virus, it may help a little bit, but it still spreads willfully between those who are and aren't vaccinated. The CDC for example has recently advised people to stop taking cruise holidays because of the spread of the virus. Cruise liners have required full vaccination from its clients since they started up holidays again. You can't pin the blame of the spread of the virus on the unvaccinated.

UBI gives those who feel it isn't safe to resume normal life, protection and it also gives those who feels it safe to resume their lives the protection that they won't be put into restrictive measures and the health and financial punishments that they come with.

Which brings me onto Boris's new year's video. Why hasn't anyone at the top tier of government and the national health service wether that me ministers or advisors or doctors or nurses advocated healthy living as a weapon to combat the virus? All we hear and read is 'get the vaccine'. Obviously getting the vaccine is a great help towards protecting yourself from illness or death but so is a healthy diet, vitamin supplements, exercise, fresh air. Not once have we seen a press conference telling the population these things.

Boris said in so many words it's easier to get a vaccine than it is to lose weight. That's a very dangerous statement to make.
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The unvaccinated are far more likely to spread the virus than those who are. You are making segregation a choice without information, a choice based on those who are unwilling to get vaccinated or do the basic minimum to help others, people who we cannot know or avoid.

The only way through this is if everyone helps each other, not segregation by proxy, unfortunately some people couldn't give a ****.
 
Randy said:
No. You are misreading my point.
Plus getting vaccinated does not stop the spread of the virus, it may help a little bit, but it still spreads willfully between those who are and aren't vaccinated. The CDC for example has recently advised people to stop taking cruise holidays because of the spread of the virus. Cruise liners have required full vaccination from its clients since they started up holidays again. You can't pin the blame of the spread of the virus on the unvaccinated.

UBI gives those who feel it isn't safe to resume normal life, protection and it also gives those who feels it safe to resume their lives the protection that they won't be put into restrictive measures and the health and financial punishments that they come with.

Which brings me onto Boris's new year's video. Why hasn't anyone at the top tier of government and the national health service wether that me ministers or advisors or doctors or nurses advocated healthy living as a weapon to combat the virus? All we hear and read is 'get the vaccine'. Obviously getting the vaccine is a great help towards protecting yourself from illness or death but so is a healthy diet, vitamin supplements, exercise, fresh air. Not once have we seen a press conference telling the population these things.

Boris said in so many words it's easier to get a vaccine than it is to lose weight. That's a very dangerous statement to make.
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After he had covid himself Boris said he was gonna get trim as that's a big help. Doesn't look like he saw it through - to be fair if people aren't going to wear a mask they're not going to set themselves a fairly challenging regimen of diet and exercise over a prolongued period to get themselves into shape so they won't be a drain on the NHS :)
 
Chris_Boro said:
The only way through this is if everyone helps each other, not segregation by proxy, unfortunately some people couldn't give a ****.
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There's also the false dichotomy of lockdown/normality.

We can mitigate against widespread infection by wearing masks and washing/sanitising regularly. Having tests available, actively using them and then staying in if you're positive also helps massively.

We can then go out and do normal things.

Essentially the argument against some minor inconvenience can be compared to not putting disabled ramps in because you prefer steps.
 
Chris_Boro said:
The unvaccinated are far more likely to spread the virus than those who are. You are making segregation a choice without information, a choice based on those who are unwilling to get vaccinated or do the basic minimum to help others, people who we cannot know or avoid.

The only way through this is if everyone helps each other, not segregation by proxy, unfortunately some people couldn't give a ****.
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I entirely agree that everyone who can be vaccinated should and I support any measures to nudge that but I think the reality is that some will not.

There is no scenario where people can ne forcibly vaccinated.

So how do we move on?
 
Mwelolo said:
I entirely agree that everyone who can be vaccinated should and I support any measures to nudge that but I think the reality is that some will not.

There is no scenario where people can ne forcibly vaccinated.

So how do we move on?
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First steps would be removing this government at the earliest opportunity. Until then, everything else is a futile argument.
 
Scrote said:
We still don't know whether there will be natural immunity for any length of time (although there are encouraging studies wrt Omicron).

Your whole argument seems to be based on the premise that we've done virtually nothing to prevent the spread so lets just go the whole hog. That is exceedingly dangerous to those who will be severely affected. Are you really that selfish?
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Scrote said:
No it doesn't. Look around the world - plenty of other governments have managed to contain the virus and not just have this defeatist attitude.

I spoke to mates in Thailand and Western Australia yesterday and they were amazed at our lack of leadership.
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It depends on what you mean by contain? Yes other governments maybe have had extreme measures in place to bring down deaths/cases but what happened after that was that thousands went on the poverty line — ie living on the streets— in particular in countries like Thailand. The US’ slogan is “Build back better” what does that really mean? Maybe after the carnage where tens of thousands lost their jobs and livelihoods the plan is to adopt a more socialist mentality with the less fortunate, etc. But now the pandemic has caused an almighty surge in inflation so governments can’t afford to put in spending plans as taxes would have to rise significantly thereby stalling spending plans for at least a few years maybe for a decade. So my point is no government has the right answer to this mess we’re in maybe we’ll just have to fight through it and the collateral damage will be those who die of Covid or the effects of Covid.
 
Maybe a bit of a tangent but I think the term "restrictions" is far too liberally used, in some cases, by certain politicians for example, to try and stoke resentment and resistance to them. There are "restrictions" obviously. But there are also "measures". The two aren't necessarily the same. There's a world of difference from being asked to wear a mask in a shop to being told you can't see friends and family.

"Learning to live with the virus" doesn't mean ending all measures as some seem to think it does either. It's surely about trying to find a compromise that allows people to live their lives in as close to pre-pandemic conditions as possible, while still keeping some precautions in place that are hopefully minimally intrusive but do enough to save lives and protect the vulnerable.

What that balance should be isn't for me to say, it's going to be very difficult to get right. Nor will it remain static, particularly as things hopefully improve. Fortunately we have a highly competent, hardworking government with every minister well on top of their briefs and the best interests of the nation at heart to make these tough decisions.
 
Anyone with a modicum of impartiality would laugh at this thread. Those advocating lockdown, hmm.. why? In 1999/2000 there were 48k excess deaths, Flu being the pimary cause. I don't remember a single post about granny killers. in 2014/15 there were 44k excess deaths. Again, we ween't talking about it.

There will come a point where we just agee to get on with life. I am a believer in lockdowns where appropriate. Right now they are not appropriate.

EDIT Our conversations are managed and directed by the media we consume.
 
Laughing said:
Anyone with a modicum of impartiality would laugh at this thread. Those advocating lockdown, hmm.. why? In 1999/2000 there were 48k excess deaths, Flu being the pimary cause. I don't remember a single post about granny killers. in 2014/15 there were 44k excess deaths. Again, we ween't talking about it.

There will come a point where we just agee to get on with life. I am a believer in lockdowns where appropriate. Right now they are not appropriate.

EDIT Our conversations are managed and directed by the media we consume.
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Who advocated lockdown in this thread?
 
Chris_Boro said:
Who advocated lockdown in this thread?
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They haven't Chris, as far as I am aware, however, its been mooted over and over again, and some of the things that have been argued include:

Mandatory vaccinations
Accusation of killing someones loved one

Keep reading the media you choose, but realise, the tide is very much turning. Right now, restrictions are not an answer for society. We are, largely a middle aged board. Our focus is on older people. Younger people have been robbed for 2 years. The people who live with mental health issues are marginalised as an acceptable cost of dealing with covid.

This is not the way forward for society as a whole.
 
No the possibility of "lockdown" is only generally mentioned by those railing against it. No one advocates for them. The majority, I think, accept that under certain conditions they may be necessary. You are making a straw man argument.
 
Muttley said:
No the possibility of "lockdown" is only generally mentioned by those railing against it. No one advocates for them. The majority, I think, accept that under certain conditions they may be necessary. You are making a straw man argument.
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Am I really mutley? It's that the only point I made, or just the one you decide to argue against?
 
Laughing said:
Anyone with a modicum of impartiality would laugh at this thread. Those advocating lockdown, hmm.. why?
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No-one is advocating for lockdowns.

Some people want "freedom" (whatever that means) at any expense and without making any concessions to those who won't be able to enjoy that freedom.

The rest of us just want to see the plan involves everyone being able to get back to some form of normality.
 
I’ll admit I can’t be aršed to read this entire thread, but answering the original poster, it’s interesting how many people in my ‘social circle’ are now saying “why are we being restricted if we’re fully jabbed etc just to protect the anti vaxxers “ it’s a fair point to be honest And I can see it will be an issue if there are more restrictions ahead.
 
Scrote said:
No-one is advocating for lockdowns.

Some people want "freedom" (whatever that means) at any expense and without making any concessions to those who won't be able to enjoy that freedom.

The rest of us just want to see the plan involves everyone being able to get back to some form of normality.
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Equally Scrote no one is advocating for freedom at any cost. The entire subject has become polarised.
 
Ingleby_Flash said:
I’ll admit I can’t be aršed to read this entire thread, but answering the original poster, it’s interesting how many people in my ‘social circle’ are now saying “why are we being restricted if we’re fully jabbed etc just to protect the anti vaxxers “ it’s a fair point to be honest And I can see it will be an issue if there are more restrictions ahead.
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Read it all you lazy git, if we have to suffer why shouldn't you.;)
 
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