When will we stop asking people who are asymptomatic or have only mild symptoms to isolate?

[Otto42]

It is and always has been in England about the NHS being overwhelmed, Johnson doesn't give a flying **** if you die, it's about how many deaths they can get away with without Italy style pictures of overflowing hospitals. In other countries saving lives has been a primary concern

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

If all of those vulnerable were tested to see if they've already had Covid and now have antibodies we'd have less of a worry about many of those at risk.

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

Are there any old leper colonies we can use to stick our grandparents in so we can get on with our lives?

 

[Mwelolo]

You have still not answered the question as to how.

You're argument is completely ridiculous without it.

That would need to be individually risk assessed.

 

[Mwelolo]

Won't it get to a point (which in some ways we've been at for a while currently) where if people are worried about going to certain events (ie. more vulnerable) because Covid numbers are rising then they can and will opt out.

I was in London the week before Christmas. With working from home back in, and people concerned about Omicron, it was really quiet. I saw a few pubs that hadn't even bothered to open, and those that were open were very quiet.

I think you are right, people are self regulating.

This is probably the way to go.

 

[r00fie1]

I’d tend to agree with you there mostly. The thing that you and everyone needs to realise is the NHS wasn’t coping before the pandemic. 40,000 nurses short alone under this evil party named the Tories and therefore when it struck it was overwhelmed.
My friends wife died recently of cancer and her treatment began before the pandemic and she was treated in a disgusting way once the pandemic took hold….why ? Lack of resources right across the nhs.
He meets with the chief executive of Tees NHS shortly following his complaint and own ongoing trauma (massive boro fan btw)
The senior nursing management executive told him last week that internally the nhs has known its been overwhelmed since the very beginning of covid.
Why has nothing been publicly available ?
I believe senior nhs management know if they speak out their careers over or their nicely paid management job is almost certainly under threat

So, this evil government peddle lie after lie about do your bit for the nhs and it’s bollox
Seriously under funding through 2010 til the pandemic struck meant the nhs (WHICH WE ALL PAY FOR) has been suffering
Brexit and losing critical staff made staffing worse but the right wing nut job Tories don’t really care about us

They care about their political skin and rich donors
End of.

Spot on.
Add to that the "Social Care [Privatisation] Bill" and the former public National Health Service has been stitched up like a kipper.
But no one has informed the "public" - yet.

 

[Chris_Boro]

That would need to be individually risk assessed.

That's not a plan.

As usual the "just shield the vulnerable" falls down to yet another completely unworkable pass away sentence.

 

[Mwelolo]

That's not a plan.

As usual the "just shield the vulnerable" falls down to yet another completely unworkable pass away sentence.

Perhaps it’s a bit too complex for you.

 

[Randy]

I'll ask you again, how do you shield the vulnerable away from those who refuse to be vaccinated?

And why should my freedoms be taken away over those who can't be bothered to follow basic rules?

Playing devil's advocate Chris but why should everybody's lives pre covid be put on hold for the rest of their existence to shield a small amount of clinically vulnerable?
I've advocated previously about using the obscene amounts of money spent on track and trace apps, NHS apps, furlough schemes, bounce back loans (which will never be paid back in full), business grants, dodgy Chinese PPE provisions to instead be spent on financially supporting those who feel the world is currently not safe for them. This could be in the form of a Universal Basic Income for example. The UBI scheme could be paid for by those who wish to continue working as normal, socialising as normal, travelling as normal, shopping as normal.

 

[Chris_Boro]

Perhaps it’s a bit too complex for you.

I perfectly understand how complex shielding is, I've done it. It's you that cannot provide an answer as to how you plan on shielding people away from those who will not follow simple guidelines or get vaccinated.

Why are you so keen on protecting their freedoms over those who would be vulnerable in your theory?

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

Maybe you could explain it is layman’s terms to us simpletons?

what would shielding the vulnerable involve, exactly?

 

[r00fie1]

this - exactly this. Speaking as one of those considered vulnerable and likely to suffer negative impact (For negative impact read infection -pneumonitis - ICU - ventilation- probable death) if I catch COVID, I and the rest of us are presented by this government, trumpeted by the MSM and accepted by too many of the plebs (as they see them) as ‘acceptable losses’. Our health minister lauds the UK as ‘the least restricted’ whilst omitting to mention the cost attached to this freedom. Well when the populist scales fall from the nations eyes remember that almost every death could have been prevented if these b******s hadn’t pursued their ideological obsessions to run down and privatise the NHS. Rant over

Its a similar ideology where "acceptable" civilian deaths [in war] are called "Collateral Damage".
Wasnt it Johnson who said "let the bodies pile high" rather than have another lock-down [April 2021].

Pressure mounts on Johnson over alleged ‘let the bodies pile high’ remarks

Tory sources have lent weight to claim PM said he’d prefer thousands of deaths to another lockdown

www.theguardian.com

UK PM's former adviser confirms Johnson said "let the bodies pile high"

Boris Johnson's former adviser Dominic Cummings confirmed on Wednesday that he had heard the prime minister say "let the bodies pile high" when discussing whether he should lock down Britain again late last year.

www.reuters.com

Boris Johnson said he ‘would rather let bodies pile high’ than impose third lockdown, reports claim

Prime minister also under mounting pressure to explain £200,000 Downing Street flat refurbishment

www.independent.co.uk

 

[YouAreMyBoro]

Won't it get to a point (which in some ways we've been at for a while currently) where if people are worried about going to certain events (ie. more vulnerable) because Covid numbers are rising then they can and will opt out.

I was in London the week before Christmas. With working from home back in, and people concerned about Omicron, it was really quiet. I saw a few pubs that hadn't even bothered to open, and those that were open were very quiet.

I suppose my take on this is that it's not fair on vulnerable people. If everyone was vaccinated then vulnerable people would be less vulnerable. It feels to me that given the circumstances it would be fairer to have either mandatory vaccinations, or vaccination passports so that vulnerable people within society weren't marginalised to their detriment, and could go out with a bit more confidence. At the moment people who could get vaccinated (but don't want to) have no repercussions, and make it harder for society to recover from covid.

 

[Chris_Boro]

Playing devil's advocate Chris but why should everybody's lives pre covid be put on hold for the rest of their existence to shield a small amount of clinically vulnerable?
I've advocated previously about using the obscene amounts of money spent on track and trace apps, NHS apps, furlough schemes, bounce back loans (which will never be paid back in full), business grants, dodgy Chinese PPE provisions to instead be spent on financially supporting those who feel the world is currently not safe for them. This could be in the form of a Universal Basic Income for example.

Small number?? Why should millions of the vulnerable, their families and carers have to have their lives put on hold just because people can't follow basic rules or get vaccinated?

You've argued throughout about freedoms, but would be willing to sacrifice the freedoms of others so your life can continue on in ignorance.

I'm utterly sick of the hypocrisy of this argument.

 

[Randy]

Small number?? Why should millions of the vulnerable, their families and carers have to have their lives put on hold just because people can't follow basic rules or get vaccinated?

You've argued throughout about freedoms, but would be willing to sacrifice the freedoms of others so your life can continue on in ignorance.

I'm utterly sick of the hypocrisy of this argument.

So would you be for or against my UBI idea? It provides options all related to freedom for everybody. Not just those who are vulnerable or those who wish to have their pre covid lives back.

 

[Expat Smoggie]

This may be controversial... but I'm sick of the unvaccinated stopping the rest of us getting access to our doctors and health system

We know the majority of people in hospital haven't had any jabs / or not the full course currently available

I know around 1 million can't have the vaccine for health reasons, thats fair enough

It's the anti-vaxxers I'm talking about... people go on about 'freedoms' ... well the majority of us who have followed all the advice are not free because of these idiots

Absolute joke... I'm not sure anti-vaxxers should be given special treatment now, we're two years nearly into this...

It is quite strange that after all the news that the vaccines are safe that healthcare workers don’t want this so-called vaccine pumped into their bodies. Moreover, the more this disease mutates you feel that our health systems won’t be able to cope not because of the actual disease but because we won’t have qualified healthcare workers who will be allowed to work if they refuse the vaccines.

 

[Chris_Boro]

So would you be for or against my UBI idea? It provides options all related to freedom for everybody. Not just those who are vulnerable or those who wish to have their pre covid lives back.

UBI I'm in favour of, but it does nothing to solve how you shield people from those who refuse to comply with basic guidelines and get vaccinated.

The whole idea revolves around segregation, you're just trying to tell it as a choice.

 

[Chris_Boro]

Here's an idea, why don't those who refuse vaccinations or are unwilling to comply with basic guidelines "shield" themselves?

After all, you are the vulnerable ones now. Let us live our lives as we did pre covid.

Sounds ridiculous doesn’t it?

 

[Randy]

UBI I'm in favour of, but it does nothing to solve how you shield people from those who refuse to comply with basic guidelines and get vaccinated.

The whole idea revolves around segregation, you're just trying to tell it as a choice.

No. You are misreading my point.
Plus getting vaccinated does not stop the spread of the virus, it may help a little bit, but it still spreads willfully between those who are and aren't vaccinated. The CDC for example has recently advised people to stop taking cruise holidays because of the spread of the virus. Cruise liners have required full vaccination from its clients since they started up holidays again. You can't pin the blame of the spread of the virus on the unvaccinated.

UBI gives those who feel it isn't safe to resume normal life, protection and it also gives those who feels it safe to resume their lives the protection that they won't be put into restrictive measures and the health and financial punishments that they come with.

Which brings me onto Boris's new year's video. Why hasn't anyone at the top tier of government and the national health service wether that me ministers or advisors or doctors or nurses advocated healthy living as a weapon to combat the virus? All we hear and read is 'get the vaccine'. Obviously getting the vaccine is a great help towards protecting yourself from illness or death but so is a healthy diet, vitamin supplements, exercise, fresh air. Not once have we seen a press conference telling the population these things.

Boris said in so many words it's easier to get a vaccine than it is to lose weight. That's a very dangerous statement to make.

 

[Mwelolo]

It is quite strange that after all the news that the vaccines are safe that healthcare workers don’t want this so-called vaccine pumped into their bodies. Moreover, the more this disease mutates you feel that our health systems won’t be able to cope not because of the actual disease but because we won’t have qualified healthcare workers who will be allowed to work if they refuse the vaccines.

There is only a small number of NHS staff who are not vaccinated in the north east.

Any of those who refuse to take responsibility for their own or other people’s health will rightly be removed from front line services.

The numbers are not big enough to make much of a difference.