LessoftheLip
Well-known member
So you're still a Labour member then? Good to know
YouGov Poll - 33 Point lead!
- Thread starter Chris_Boro
- Start date
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
NoSo you're still a Labour member then? Good to know
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Posting this, just because.
Chris_Boro
Well-known member
Thinking about changing the thread title...
Poll Thread - Featuring arguments about Corbyn v Starmer.
Poll Thread - Featuring arguments about Corbyn v Starmer.
Laughing
Well-known member
To be fair it's been 20 points, give or take for over a year now. I still look in, but it's not telling us anything new.
El Guapo
Well-known member
Yeah I know. I was referring to the infighting of those who support Labour.
Just get these thieving charlatans out and worry about what happens over the next five years as it happens. Labour, in whatever guise, cannot effect any change from the opposition benches. Hopefully when (if) they win the GE with a big enough majority they can start to make a positive difference to ordinary people’s lives, the country as a whole and as well as start to restore our standing in the eyes of other nations (maybe not necessarily as a power etc but just as a nation with morals, that isn’t plagued with corruption, that doesn’t ride roughshod over law in the charge for self gratification and money for those in power, and that can be trusted etc).
Anyway, no doubt I’ll get pellets for the above but so be it.
h_m_boro
Well-known member
** peww** ** peww**
Agree, but with power comes corruption.
Lobbyists. Donors. Friendly foreign businessmen. Sh*t WILL happen, it's inevitable. But what labour can't do is rinse the country on an industrial scale in full view, as the Tories have been doing for 14 years.
Desperately need some honesty back in politics. But with the likes of the Labour NEC in power......still think shenanigans will be afoot.
We shall see
Laughing
Well-known member
We will see h m.** peww** ** peww**
Agree, but with power comes corruption.
Lobbyists. Donors. Friendly foreign businessmen. Sh*t WILL happen, it's inevitable. But what labour can't do is rinse the country on an industrial scale in full view, as the Tories have been doing for 14 years.
Desperately need some honesty back in politics. But with the likes of the Labour NEC in power......still think shenanigans will be afoot.
We shall see
It's ungratifying the way politics works but every politician has to work within the same framework. You have to appease your back benches. You have to appease your allies around the world. The business' that depends on legislation.
I would guess that many mp's start of wanting to change the world one vote at a time and end up just trying to keep their heads above water.
There isn't a viable alternative at the moment and even as a Labour supporter I think that is shameful and speaks volumes for how far our country and our electoral systems have fallen.
Scrote
Well-known member
I think he was firing pellets at you** peww** ** peww**
What does that mean?
I agree with the general sentiment but I disagree with the idea we can just sit back and see what happens.
I think it was Maya Angelou that said "when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". Starmer has repeatedly shown that he can't be trusted with anything that a traditional Labour supported would expect to be high on the agenda for a first-term Labour government.
History shows us that Labour get progressively less ambitous the longer they are in office.
The country needs a big shake-up.
We're being told that privatisations of e.g. Water, Rail have to wait as now isn't the right time depsite the massive failings of both.
We're being told that the private sector needs more access to the NHS.
We're being told that something as simple as a wealth tax (i.e. on unearned income) is too socialist and might scare off the wealthy (despite all evidence to the contrary).
It isn't a good starting point and it needs to be called out.
El Guapo
Well-known member
Ah ok, hadn’t realised that autocorrect / predictive text had wrongly assumed again that the word i’d typed (pelters) was incorrect so was confused.I think he was firing pellets at you
I agree with the general sentiment but I disagree with the idea we can just sit back and see what happens.
I think it was Maya Angelou that said "when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". Starmer has repeatedly shown that he can't be trusted with anything that a traditional Labour supported would expect to be high on the agenda for a first-term Labour government.
History shows us that Labour get progressively less ambitous the longer they are in office.
The country needs a big shake-up.
We're being told that privatisations of e.g. Water, Rail have to wait as now isn't the right time depsite the massive failings of both.
We're being told that the private sector needs more access to the NHS.
We're being told that something as simple as a wealth tax (i.e. on unearned income) is too socialist and might scare off the wealthy (despite all evidence to the contrary).
It isn't a good starting point and it needs to be called out.
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
LessoftheLip
Well-known member
Historically, the PLP has distanced itself from the NEC once in Government and expect that to continue under Starmer, who will understand he governs for the whole country. Blair pretty much ignored the NEC. The problem with him was the face-off with the Treasury meant that he often governed via 'kitchen cabinet' of trusted aides. Nevertheless, there were always big hitters - Blunkett, Straw, Prescott, Cook - who needed to be consulted.with the likes of the Labour NEC in power......still think shenanigans will be afoot.
We shall see
Starmer's main enemy, in my opinion, will be his habit (gained in paranoid opposition) of excessive caution. He needs to make the weather, take the country with him while he retains their goodwill.
The entire thread can be condensed to this sentiment [and the associated fatigue of arguing with those who, mystifyingly, disagree]
NYboro
Well-known member
His spelling is poor. It should be Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew.** peww** ** peww**
What does that mean?
Scrote
Well-known member
This is nonsense. Our system of government is based on there being an opposition in the Commons and checks/balances in the Lords.
The narrative that the opposition just has to sit and wait until they get a turn at 'power' is VERY recent.
The idea that the Tories might steal policies/ideas and ruin them is also something that has crept in under Starmer.
Corbyn forced no end of U-Turns on Tory policy just by opposing it. If the Tories said they were going to follow through on a Labour idea they were then opposed and questioned when they didn't follow through.
Not opposing is tacit agreement. Which is why people like me don't trust Starmer, Streeting, Reeves et al.
We do oppose. We just pick our battles so as not to frighten elements of the fragile coalition we have assembled, which of needs includes a large proportion of people who have previously voted Tory
Scrote
Well-known member
So Labour CAN effect change from the opposition benches?
As U-turns go, that was pretty swift...