Timid, timid, timidSo what's your main problem with starmer then capybara
No need to apologise capybara. Have me an opportunity to crack the boards oldest joke.Sorry about that. I'm on my 'phone in a bar in Germany and the connection's a bit ropy.
No need to apologise capybara. Have me an opportunity to crack the boards oldest joke.
No need to apologise capybara. GAVE me an opportunity to crack the boards oldest joke.
It doesn't stop us posting on FMTTMYou see that's my (main) problem with Keir Starmer. If he set out a bold vision for the future he'd have the young uns going out and voting for Labour this time and for the next generation. Instead he's chasing the votes of old people who switched five years ago, many of whom are dead already. It's just so timid.
This, in spades. Was worth the repetition.You see that's my (main) problem with Keir Starmer. If he set out a bold vision for the future he'd have the young uns going out and voting for Labour this time and for the next generation. Instead he's chasing the votes of old people who switched five years ago, many of whom are dead already. It's just so timid.
Worth three 'likes' as well?This, in spades. Was worth the repetition.
No. That's not how it works politically. Otherwise you could quite reasonably argue that no opposition party ever caused a U-turn.So you don't think the Lib Dems had anything to do with the u-turns? Or the SNP, or the weight of public opinion, or the constituents of Tory MPs when they returned for weekend surgeries, or focus groups, or relevant industry bodies?
I'm not sure you understand what research is. You asked for evidence and I've provided it from two sources. If you don't agree with the evidence then the onus is on you to explain why. And calling out 'left wing organisations' isn't enough. You need to find something that contradicts the evidence itself. The articles collated by Skwakbox are from a whole host of publications - are you suggesting they're all 'left wing'?The claim by BBG was that "Corbyn forced u-turns". I've asked you both for evidence and neither of you has produced a shred. You've provided lists and links produced by left wing organisations connected to Corbyn but it's clear that you haven't done any research yourself and are just parroting speculative claims. I'm holding you to the same level of scrutiny as you do to others making a claim about Starmer and the Labour Party now so don't moan about it.
No. That's not how it works politically. Otherwise you could quite reasonably argue that no opposition party ever caused a U-turn.
Keeping the weight of public opinion focused on an issue is what counts. Which is where Corbyn was good and Starmer is appaling - energy, water, food inflation etc. Corbyn would have been banging the drum and saying how Labour could and would do it differently. Starmer's current plan seems to be do it the same, but 'better' - whatever that means.
I'm not sure you understand what research is. You asked for evidence and I've provided it from two sources. If you don't agree with the evidence then the onus is on you to explain why. And calling out 'left wing organisations' isn't enough. You need to find something that contradicts the evidence itself. The articles collated by Skwakbox are from a whole host of publications - are you suggesting they're all 'left wing'?
I think there is merit in what you have said there but why do you think Starmer is doing so well in the opinion polls and apparently gaining the support of voters that Corbyn couldn’t reach? That’s a genuine question.Keeping the weight of public opinion focused on an issue is what counts. Which is where Corbyn was good and Starmer is appaling - energy, water, food inflation etc. Corbyn would have been banging the drum and saying how Labour could and would do it differently. Starmer's current plan seems to be do it the same, but 'better' - whatever that means.
Have you seen the quality of the opposition? That’s why.I think there is merit in what you have said there but why do you think Starmer is doing so well in the opinion polls and apparently gaining the support of voters that Corbyn couldn’t reach? That’s a genuine question.
The former is largely to do with the Tories and where the nation is. Corbyn was 'unlucky' to take over just in time for Brexit. Starmer was 'lucky' be heading into an election after 15 years of the worst government in living memory. Some of it is down to Starmer being seen as a safe-pair-of-hands and that leads into the latter part.I think there is merit in what you have said there but why do you think Starmer is doing so well in the opinion polls and apparently gaining the support of voters that Corbyn couldn’t reach? That’s a genuine question.
I think all of that is a fair analysis. With regard to what happens if Labour win the election I think that is the time for Starmer to be bold and ignore the right wing media and concentrate on improving the lives of working people. Look at the Raynor thing just now, the right wing will run down Labour whatever policies they pursue, left or right, because they want their hands on the power.The former is largely to do with the Tories and where the nation is. Corbyn was 'unlucky' to take over just in time for Brexit. Starmer was 'lucky' be heading into an election after 15 years of the worst government in living memory. Some of it is down to Starmer being seen as a safe-pair-of-hands and that leads into the latter part.
Corbyn was a socialist of long-standing. There was enough 'dirt' for the media to turn large sections of the population against him. There is also the very simple explanation that Starmer has eradicated any dissent within Labour and doesn't have a PLP actively working against him. The image of Labour is clearer for people. The noises coming out around policy are also favourable to the voters that Corbyn was never going to reach. Whether you think that's a good thing or not depends on where you stand politically.
The problems for Starmer (and Labour) will surface when the Tories have had time to regroup. The mainstream media will very quickly forget recent history and anything other than centrist to right-of-centre policy from Labour will be savaged. Without offering anything to the left it's highly likely that they'll end up losing support from both ends of the politcal spectrum. It's going to be a rough ride - especially for the people that are already struggling.
I'd take this. Imagine a government that just, you know, governs. Just does stuff. No self aggrandising, self promoting rhetoric. Just serving the people. What a dreamMany people want "boring", they just want a government that governs without the ridiculous headlines and rhetoric.
I think that's right; I want governance from government.Many people want "boring", they just want a government that governs without the ridiculous headlines and rhetoric.