Brexit benefits part 3453

[The Ruthsayer]

I think 'catastrophic' is a bit melodramatic.

- Worries about a flower shortage on Valentines Day.
- Expats needing a visa after 90 days.
- Long queues for holidaymakers.

Canadian tariffs on cheese and cars aren't great, but I'm not sure how big that market is or the overall impact on our economy.

There are also a lot of 'could bes' in the article.

So no, there is nothing in that particular article which would convince steadfast brexit voters that they were wrong.

Agreed. I voted to remain and would vote to re-join, but this sensationalist nonsense continues to undermine the re-join case. And nonsense it is. Those who will suffer most from a shortage of flowers are the Dutch sellers (the public will benefit by not being charged £50 for half a dozen wilting roses). I flew to Gran Canaria (spectacular hiking!) a few weeks ago and the Spanish customs have a whole set of ‘UK only gates’, with a much smaller number of Schengen.
And having spent a little time in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, I don’t recall seeing a single UK made car (perhaps someone has the actual figures to hand?).
There are solid reasons, most geo-political, for the UK to be a member of the EU, but none of the quoted items qualify.
Focus on what is important SmallTown, or you sound like a remain version of the Daily Hell (sorry).

 

[SmallTown]

If before posting your weekly anti-Brexit articles you offered an opinion on whether it was because of Brexit or it was because of the government then you would get fair debate. Refusing to do that makes it utterly pointless.

Hard to unpick really as one led to the other. But the issue is the problems are excarbetad or because of Brexit. Yes of course the Tories have made everything worse. But if it wasn't for brexit some things they simply wouldn't have been able to make worse, so it's clearly brexits fault.

There are benefits to not being part of the EU. The main one is obviously being in control of our own decision making processes. There are many negatives as well but mostly self-inflicted. Many of the benefits are unable to be realised due to the people making the decisions. Some of that is on both sides of the channel because there are still people in the EU that hold a grudge because of the way the negotiations went but when they leave and the Tories leave then new people without those prior sour relationships will be able to be more conciliatory and make changes that benefit everyone.

I don't accept this "both sides" argument. The EU wants to do what is best of the EU. and it's not giving us any adverse or punitive treatment on top of applying rules it already applies to third nation countries. Which, and not to belabour the point, is directly the fault of the UK voting to leave the EU.

There are many benefits to things within the UK like the NHS but the way the Tories were running it you wouldn't think so either. You have to be able to separate mismanagement from impossible.

Not sure the relevance. Both inside and outside of the EU we have had an NHS? And yes there ARE benefits to being british. My point is that these benefits are fewer now. Thanks to Brexit, with no discernible upside.

 

[Nano]

Hard to unpick really as one led to the other. But the issue is the problems are excarbetad or because of Brexit. Yes of course the Tories have made everything worse. But if it wasn't for brexit some things they simply wouldn't have been able to make worse, so it's clearly brexits fault.

You can't blame Brexit for Tory incompetence. Take for example the ECHR. It makes perfect sense that we don't need to follow the ECHR and can implement our own CHR and any normal thinking person would realise the rules followed in the ECHR are all perfectly agreeable and don't need changing. The fact the Tories want to change things shows that they are monsters. We shouldn't have to join a political union to stop ourselves from electing monsters, we just don't elect monsters. Apply this logic to anything and you realise that Brexit isn't causing these issues but the Tories are and the solution isn't to join the EU but to remove the Tories.

I don't accept this "both sides" argument. The EU wants to do what is best of the EU. and it's not giving us any adverse or punitive treatment on top of applying rules it already applies to third nation countries. Which, and not to belabour the point, is directly the fault of the UK voting to leave the EU.

The EU aren't a single thing. The people in charge of the relationship are people. I know from experience if I have to work with someone I think is a d*ck then I will be less agreeable to what they have to say. Politics is no different. Both sides of the relationship have been through a break-up and are no longer amicable but once all the people on either side have moved on (or been removed) then the replacements don't have that working animosity. It doesn't have to be a deliberately spiteful relationship but one where people don't see eye to eye isn't going to be productive.

Not sure the relevance. Both inside and outside of the EU we have had an NHS? And yes there ARE benefits to being british. My point is that these benefits are fewer now. Thanks to Brexit, with no discernible upside.

The relevance is just to show that even things that are clearly beneficial can look like a waste of time/money when the wrong people are in charge of them.

 

[SmallTown]

You can't blame Brexit for Tory incompetence. Take for example the ECHR. It makes perfect sense that we don't need to follow the ECHR and can implement our own CHR and any normal thinking person would realise the rules followed in the ECHR are all perfectly agreeable and don't need changing. The fact the Tories want to change things shows that they are monsters. We shouldn't have to join a political union to stop ourselves from electing monsters, we just don't elect monsters. Apply this logic to anything and you realise that Brexit isn't causing these issues but the Tories are and the solution isn't to join the EU but to remove the Tories.


The EU aren't a single thing. The people in charge of the relationship are people. I know from experience if I have to work with someone I think is a d*ck then I will be less agreeable to what they have to say. Politics is no different. Both sides of the relationship have been through a break-up and are no longer amicable but once all the people on either side have moved on (or been removed) then the replacements don't have that working animosity. It doesn't have to be a deliberately spiteful relationship but one where people don't see eye to eye isn't going to be productive.


The relevance is just to show that even things that are clearly beneficial can look like a waste of time/money when the wrong people are in charge of them.

Not sure what the ECHR has to do with the EU but there you go. And I don't think you've actually disproven my point. Yes the Toppers do terrible things. but so much they wouldn't have been ALLOWED to do had we not voted for brexit. It has enabled this.

Second paragraph I undertand, people like to over simplify and believe that massive organisations are actually single people with moods and the like. But the simple fact is they aren't most big organisations agree things on consent. So what, for certain people, is the EU being vindictive is, in reality, them simply acting out the laws that the UK asked for. It's an organisation treating another organisation in the manner it asked to be treated. It's not a personal thing.

Last paragraph: OK so you think brexit is "clearly beneficial". That's that bit I've been looking for an answer for for 8 years. Why do you think that?

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Was he referring to the benefit being for future generation rather than being selfish me me me?

He kinda was but couldn’t articulate those benefits other than stating ‘at least we have control now’

@SmallTown. When did we get so dumb ?
I think our system, boring for the majority means people have, since the mid 60s, kinda switched off, naively thinking that the power's that be’ will look after everything and we can just get on with ‘life’
Up step the ‘right wing extreme capitalism nut jobs’ who start manipulating everything to convince people they need low taxes and little if any regulation for a good life and you have a confused and conflicted majority of the population; continually being lied to about the causes of their countries choices and difficulties
Hence a bleak outlook with people arguing with each other and/or in denial or lying to them selves

 

[speckyget]

You can't blame Brexit for Tory incompetence.

But you can blame Brexit for delivering Johnson his 'stonking majority'.

 

[Nano]

Not sure what the ECHR has to do with the EU but there you go. And I don't think you've actually disproven my point. Yes the Toppers do terrible things. but so much they wouldn't have been ALLOWED to do had we not voted for brexit. It has enabled this.

Second paragraph I undertand, people like to over simplify and believe that massive organisations are actually single people with moods and the like. But the simple fact is they aren't most big organisations agree things on consent. So what, for certain people, is the EU being vindictive is, in reality, them simply acting out the laws that the UK asked for. It's an organisation treating another organisation in the manner it asked to be treated. It's not a personal thing.

Last paragraph: OK so you think brexit is "clearly beneficial". That's that bit I've been looking for an answer for for 8 years. Why do you think that?

If we are electing people that are only not doing things that are terrible because someone else is stopping them doing it then we shouldn't be electing them in the first place. If the fallout from Brexit is that it shows that the Tories are not only incompetent but they are also evil then it means they will never get elected again. They have finally revealed their true form and they are going to be buried by it or forced to change. Both of those things are clearly beneficial.

Brexit probably isn't going to be massively beneficial. The UK probably isn't going to become the best country in the world with the richest, happiest people in it. The same is true within the EU though but the possibility to be better only exists by being outside of the EU. Brexit should see the UK living almost identically to the way we lived within the EU. We can still trade with the EU, we can still live and work in other countries (within and outside of the EU). The benefit to Brexit will be that there are some things we can control that we can't control from within the EU. Number 1 is we make our own rules and we elect the people that make those rules. The closer you are to the vote the more powerful the vote is. Every time you add a layer of democracy the people lose more power. The EU is just more layers. We don't have to accept unlimited immigration, we can control our own borders (I know you'll point to the existing sky high immigration numbers but that is a choice our government is making that they don't have to make, solution is to vote out the Tories).

The main benefit is that the EU despite appearing left wing because it has some minimum standards (that the Tories would like to see removed), is not left wing. It is a right-wing system designed to allow access to cheap labour and low tax HQs to attract global businesses to rival China and the US. They are a better version of it than China and the US because they know that keeping workers happy makes them more productive than driving them to the ground but the aim is the same.

I don't necessarily think we will achieve what I would like us to achieve which is to be a better place to live than a neo-liberal union but being outside of the EU means we have the opportunity to do that where we definitely don't within.

I also am not going to judge something like a major political event on such a short time scale. It will take time for things to happen and I hope that the next generations will elect people to govern in a way that is best for the people and not themselves. We don't need to rely on the EU to protect us from the Tories. We can protect ourselves.

 

[Brian Marwood]

. Brexit should see the UK living almost identically to the way we lived within the EU.

You clearly don't move goods to and from the EU otherwise you wouldn't even write these words.

Prior to Brexit you just booked a truck and away the goods went. Now there is no end of red tape, documentation and clearances which comes at a substantial cost. This is escalated even further if you have anything beyond the norm such as organic goods.

Do you know, for example, that you cannot bring organic goods into the UK and then subsequently move the goods to within the EU and retain the organic status?

 

[ThePrisoner]

You clearly don't move goods to and from the EU otherwise you wouldn't even write these words.

Prior to Brexit you just booked a truck and away the goods went. Now there is no end of red tape, documentation and clearances which comes at a substantial cost. This is escalated even further if you have anything beyond the norm such as organic goods.

Do you know, for example, that you cannot bring organic goods into the UK and then subsequently move the goods to within the EU and retain the organic status?

They still don't get it because they do not understand what the single market is, what the customs union is or what common standards are, and that now that the UK has rejected them trade between the EU and UK will always be significantly impeded with a reduced standard of living for most people in the UK.

They really did not know what they were voting for.

 

[hobblewobble]

Almost all the politicians want to get into back into the e u for the gravyboat there missing out on, which is why we cannot get anything done.
The political set up is a joke.
Most people on here think labour will save them (not a chance) Indecision is the new name of the labour party.
Greed the name of the tory party.
? for the rest.
when we do get back into Europe the people who have been whining to get us back into the eu will be replaced by people whining to get out again.

 

[Nano]

You clearly don't move goods to and from the EU otherwise you wouldn't even write these words.

Prior to Brexit you just booked a truck and away the goods went. Now there is no end of red tape, documentation and clearances which comes at a substantial cost. This is escalated even further if you have anything beyond the norm such as organic goods.

Do you know, for example, that you cannot bring organic goods into the UK and then subsequently move the goods to within the EU and retain the organic status?

The reason I used the word should is because this is something that is happening due to the **** poor management of the negotiation process by the Tories. It didn't need to be that way. They've chosen that option. It can be better and I believe it will be with different people in charge.

 

[ThePrisoner]

The reason I used the word should is because this is something that is happening due to the **** poor management of the negotiation process by the Tories. It didn't need to be that way. They've chosen that option. It can be better and I believe it will be with different people in charge.

How? How can it be better?

The EU will not do anything to undermine itself.
The USA is a protectionist bloc with internal free trade, similar to the EU, and will likewise not undermine itself for the sake of one middling island state.
Canada have stopped trade deal negotiations because the UK won't accept hormones in beef from them as that would trigger more checks on meat imported to Northern Ireland and put the Windsor Framework at risk. Canada also wants to impose massive tariffs on cheese imports from the UK which the UK won't accept because it would damage the UK chees makers (blessed be they).
Every country knows the UK is desperate and any trade deal with any country of any size will probably be worse than any we had while in the EU. Look at the NZ and Aussie deals. They could hardly believe we signed up to them.

The UK has little to no leverage. It represent about 2% of global trade. In their minds, Brexiteers seem to think it is more like 20%.

 

[Osboro]

Almost all the politicians want to get into back into the e u for the gravyboat there missing out on, which is why we cannot get anything done.
The political set up is a joke.
Most people on here think labour will save them (not a chance) Indecision is the new name of the labour party.
Greed the name of the tory party.
? for the rest.
when we do get back into Europe the people who have been whining to get us back into the eu will be replaced by people whining to get out again.

Wtf?

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

The reason I used the word should is because this is something that is happening due to the **** poor management of the negotiation process by the Tories. It didn't need to be that way. They've chosen that option. It can be better and I believe it will be with different people in charge.

All you're doing is show you don't understand how businesses work in the real world on an international footing, which is the reality that faces even relatively small businesses.

You are equating regression with stasis, which is either wilfully misleading or naive at best.

I understand the reasons why you might decide that politically we are better off making decisions solely in the UK but we don't govern ourselves in a bubble.

You point towards lots of issues being relatively minor but you wouldn't appreciate it if I made your life slightly more difficult in 30 percent of aspects of your life. Especially if I had outright promised that I wouldn't, even doubling down when you questioned me, that they would be better.

More than half of physical imports into the UK are for further processing towards production or further processing. If you make that more difficult you damage the country overall.

You mentioned above that, almost with a shrug, that its Dutch flower people who will miss out as though its a zero sum game. No, everyone misses out. If Sainsbury can't get fruit or veg in from Spain it isn't just the Spanish supplier that misses out.

The suppliers with the younger seed plants importing into the UK will get paid and it will be the UK farmer who bears the cost of any delays, risks missing out if there is wastage and probably not interested in carrying on with that type of work.

You're trying so hard to come across as above it all and super smart. You're revealing the opposite.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

If we are electing people that are only not doing things that are terrible because someone else is stopping them doing it then we shouldn't be electing them in the first place. If the fallout from Brexit is that it shows that the Tories are not only incompetent but they are also evil then it means they will never get elected again. They have finally revealed their true form and they are going to be buried by it or forced to change. Both of those things are clearly beneficial.

Brexit probably isn't going to be massively beneficial. The UK probably isn't going to become the best country in the world with the richest, happiest people in it. The same is true within the EU though but the possibility to be better only exists by being outside of the EU. Brexit should see the UK living almost identically to the way we lived within the EU. We can still trade with the EU, we can still live and work in other countries (within and outside of the EU). The benefit to Brexit will be that there are some things we can control that we can't control from within the EU. Number 1 is we make our own rules and we elect the people that make those rules. The closer you are to the vote the more powerful the vote is. Every time you add a layer of democracy the people lose more power. The EU is just more layers. We don't have to accept unlimited immigration, we can control our own borders (I know you'll point to the existing sky high immigration numbers but that is a choice our government is making that they don't have to make, solution is to vote out the Tories).

The main benefit is that the EU despite appearing left wing because it has some minimum standards (that the Tories would like to see removed), is not left wing. It is a right-wing system designed to allow access to cheap labour and low tax HQs to attract global businesses to rival China and the US. They are a better version of it than China and the US because they know that keeping workers happy makes them more productive than driving them to the ground but the aim is the same.

I don't necessarily think we will achieve what I would like us to achieve which is to be a better place to live than a neo-liberal union but being outside of the EU means we have the opportunity to do that where we definitely don't within.

I also am not going to judge something like a major political event on such a short time scale. It will take time for things to happen and I hope that the next generations will elect people to govern in a way that is best for the people and not themselves. We don't need to rely on the EU to protect us from the Tories. We can protect ourselves.

An interesting post and comes across as genuine and heartfelt but I just can’t get any other conclusion to this post other than; confused or mixed up thinking about lots of thinking

 

[SmallTown]

Agreed. I voted to remain and would vote to re-join, but this sensationalist nonsense continues to undermine the re-join case. And nonsense it is. Those who will suffer most from a shortage of flowers are the Dutch sellers (the public will benefit by not being charged £50 for half a dozen wilting roses). I flew to Gran Canaria (spectacular hiking!) a few weeks ago and the Spanish customs have a whole set of ‘UK only gates’, with a much smaller number of Schengen.
And having spent a little time in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, I don’t recall seeing a single UK made car (perhaps someone has the actual figures to hand?).
There are solid reasons, most geo-political, for the UK to be a member of the EU, but none of the quoted items qualify.
Focus on what is important SmallTown, or you sound like a remain version of the Daily Hell (sorry).

I can't agree with you because the cumulative effect of everything is my issue. Making so many thing slightly worse makes life on this island much worse as a whole. It all adds up.

But, to hopefully satisfy you, would you say "being able to afford to eat" was significant enough?

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-01-26/how-next-weeks-brexit-rule-change-will-drive-up-food-prices

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Brexit has obviously been a benefit for you @SmallTown
Since Brexit you come on here spouting your shyte, isnt there a football message board closer to where you live that you can go on and be irritating, what is the actual point of your doom and gloom posts?
if Brexit has fcuked up your life so much, go and do something proactive about it, instead of moooaaaaning.
UTB!!!

We all love the Boro.
I’m 1 million percent with small town though.

Highlighting village idiots who voted for Brexit having been totally sucked in by Cummings et al and then say move on, compounding their idiot ness needs a light shining on them/YOU.

I don’t care. I have enough money but you and your morons have made it harder for the next generation

 

[WoodallServices]

We all love the Boro.
I’m 1 million percent with small town though.

Highlighting village idiots who voted for Brexit having been totally sucked in by Cummings et al and then say move on, compounding their idiot ness needs a light shining on them/YOU.

I don’t care. I have enough money but you and your morons have made it harder for the next generation

Oh, but they haven’t don’t you know, what they said might take 5 or 6 years to feel the benefit has now become 10 or 20 years so the next generation will be sorted. As always with Brexiteers/Tories…….it’s jam tomorrow.

 

[SmallTown]

Brexit has obviously been a benefit for you @SmallTown
Since Brexit you come on here spouting your shyte, isnt there a football message board closer to where you live that you can go on and be irritating, what is the actual point of your doom and gloom posts?
if Brexit has fcuked up your life so much, go and do something proactive about it, instead of moooaaaaning.
UTB!!!

Typical brexit response this don't it? You can't actually defend it so you just attack the people showing you how bad it is.

You need to be better

 

[Redpete]

Typical brexit response this don't it? You can't actually defend it so you just attack the people showing you how bad it is.

You need to be better

The thing is Small Town your 1st post was not about how bad things are but how bad things " might " be.
It comes across to some as Trolling.