Planned riot in Middlesborough last weekend.

Frozen Horse said:
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge'" Isaac Asimov
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Fantastic quote and of course I’m gonna have to bring up the B word again, brexit “we don’t need experts” was commonly trotted out to create a general distrust of the intellectuals.

Here we are with universities attacked and libraries burned by people shouting the Brexit battle cries of “we want our country back”.

For those that voted Brexit in good faith, I know it’s difficult to be entirely open minded and the easy option is double down that you were right but blame poor implementation, but at some point you have to be this guy, and ask this question. Because even if you think it was a path to a more prosperous country, the reality is it’s just been a path to divisiveness, racism, propaganda, tearing up parliamentary standards, rioting, race hate, the rise of the far right fascists and generally arseholery. The very fabric of our culture and society has been torn apart, and people warned that this would happen, so the only logical conclusion is that it’s by design.

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dooderooni said:
I wonder how much appetite there'd be for benefit recipients having to do community work as part of them getting money?
There must be loads of stuff that they could do which would go some way into installing a sense of community responsibility in them as it's clearly lacking in a large portion of the population.
It doesn't have to be slave labour either as there's already loads of volunteers doing things like litter picking etc and that sense of community and pride in where they live is the main driver of their efforts.
Some of the scenes we've seen over the past week clearly show that respect is a foreign word to many.
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Maybe get some of them lazy disabled people to do their bit as well.
 
sherlock said:
Is that you Rishi?
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You wish 😀
We need to start addressing the root cause of the disaffection and instilling a sense of community seems like a good starting point to me.
It wouldn't just be benefit claimants that were targeted either, it'd have to include plans for jobs, wages, child care etc that make staying on benefits the least preferable option.
It may be an uncomfortable truth, but political policy from the 80's onwards from all parties has led to this and if we want to "get our country back" as these protectors want to tell us then we won't do it by stopping immigration, we'll do it by investing in our future and marginalising those who don't want to be part of it. You cant tell me that those filmed going from car to car and house to house performing blatant acts of vandalism care about anything other than themselves. We have the option of locking them up or trying to change their outlook. I'd much rather we tried the latter option and if that takes some uncomfortable policies then it surely has to be worth it.
 
BoroMart said:
Fantastic quote and of course I’m gonna have to bring up the B word again, brexit “we don’t need experts” was commonly trotted out to create a general distrust of the intellectuals.

Here we are with universities attacked and libraries burned by people shouting the Brexit battle cries of “we want our country back”.

For those that voted Brexit in good faith, I know it’s difficult to be entirely open minded and the easy option is double down that you were right but blame poor implementation, but at some point you have to be this guy, and ask this question. Because even if you think it was a path to a more prosperous country, the reality is it’s just been a path to divisiveness, racism, propaganda, tearing up parliamentary standards, rioting, race hate, the rise of the far right fascists and generally arseholery. The very fabric of our culture and society has been torn apart, and people warned that this would happen, so the only logical conclusion is that it’s by design.

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Is setting fire to a hotel with immigrants inside any different than pushing people into a gas chamber in Auschwitz?
 
dooderooni said:
You wish 😀
We need to start addressing the root cause of the disaffection and instilling a sense of community seems like a good starting point to me.
It wouldn't just be benefit claimants that were targeted either, it'd have to include plans for jobs, wages, child care etc that make staying on benefits the least preferable option.
It may be an uncomfortable truth, but political policy from the 80's onwards from all parties has led to this and if we want to "get our country back" as these protectors want to tell us then we won't do it by stopping immigration, we'll do it by investing in our future and marginalising those who don't want to be part of it. You cant tell me that those filmed going from car to car and house to house performing blatant acts of vandalism care about anything other than themselves. We have the option of locking them up or trying to change their outlook. I'd much rather we tried the latter option and if that takes some uncomfortable policies then it surely has to be worth it.
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There is enough wealth in this country for everyone to lead a productive and comfortable life....look at the top of the food chain before discriminating those at the bottom.
 
"We need to start addressing the root cause of the disaffection and instilling a sense of community seems like a good starting point to me.
It wouldn't just be benefit claimants that were targeted either, it'd have to include plans for jobs, wages, child care etc that make staying on benefits the least preferable option.
It may be an uncomfortable truth, but political policy from the 80's onwards from all parties has led to this and if we want to "get our country back" as these protectors want to tell us then we won't do it by stopping immigration, we'll do it by investing in our future and marginalising those who don't want to be part of it. You cant tell me that those filmed going from car to car and house to house performing blatant acts of vandalism care about anything other than themselves. We have the option of locking them up or trying to change their outlook. I'd much rather we tried the latter option and if that takes some uncomfortable policies then it surely has to be worth it."

FFS Rishi, we've talked about this. You're not in charge anymore, let it go......
 
dooderooni said:
You wish 😀
We need to start addressing the root cause of the disaffection and instilling a sense of community seems like a good starting point to me.
It wouldn't just be benefit claimants that were targeted either, it'd have to include plans for jobs, wages, child care etc that make staying on benefits the least preferable option.
It may be an uncomfortable truth, but political policy from the 80's onwards from all parties has led to this and if we want to "get our country back" as these protectors want to tell us then we won't do it by stopping immigration, we'll do it by investing in our future and marginalising those who don't want to be part of it. You cant tell me that those filmed going from car to car and house to house performing blatant acts of vandalism care about anything other than themselves. We have the option of locking them up or trying to change their outlook. I'd much rather we tried the latter option and if that takes some uncomfortable policies then it surely has to be worth it.
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I agree to a point but this does not take into account that it does not often pay to work. Wages deliberately kept low and public services being decimated are more to blame than "lazy benefits claimant's" which in its self is a lazy trope pushed by neo liberal ideologues.

People are angry because their living standards are dropping and there are not many good playing jobs, even all the "essential workers" lauded during the pandemic have been left to struggle with little to no wage growth whilst costs rise.

If you make peoples life better they are less inclined to buy the snake oil people are selling around immigration and multiculturism.

Look through history, civil disturbance and racism usually goes hand in hand with economic hardship and politicians/oligarchs looking to point the finger at the "other". But marginalising people will not solve this, if anything you push the problem down the road; when times are hard it rears its head again.

Make peoples lives better, give them opportunity and stop voting in bad actors who's only aim is to concentrate wealth and power within their own class. You don't get anywhere by making martyry's and marginalising people.
 
go-nads! said:
There is enough wealth in this country for everyone to lead a productive and comfortable life....look at the top of the food chain before discriminating those at the bottom.
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Did you skip the bit about providing better jobs, wages and childcare to encourage people?
I'm a socialist, but what harm would it do for those on benefits and fit enough to do so to do work in their local communities?
Lots of talk about feral kids and lack of respect already on this thread so anything that changes that trend needs to be on the table.
 
dooderooni said:
I wonder how much appetite there'd be for benefit recipients having to do community work as part of them getting money?
There must be loads of stuff that they could do which would go some way into installing a sense of community responsibility in them as it's clearly lacking in a large portion of the population.
It doesn't have to be slave labour either as there's already loads of volunteers doing things like litter picking etc and that sense of community and pride in where they live is the main driver of their efforts.
Some of the scenes we've seen over the past week clearly show that respect is a foreign word to many.
Click to expand...
Surely you mean why aren't they employed and given a wage?
 
“ The Bitch that bore him is in heat again."
-Bertolt Brecht
(The Resistible Rise of Arturo Ui-1941)
 
Does anyone know how the guy is getting on who was attacked outside the Intrepid Explorer? Someone said he was in a coma last night.

Great work by all involved on the clean up today. People from all communities and backgrounds coming together to clean up the mess from the idiots yesterday.
 
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