What the British Public has noticed re consequences of Brexit

Lefty

Well-known member
Late 1980s and as said most Western European countries (i.e more than 50%) the vast majority were in the EEC.

DIN standards were driven by Germany.

It was possible to get approval to DIN standards, but it was very hard work. Remember these were kettles tested for many years in the UK/ROI.

Strangely kettles were not common in most parts of the EU, because they didn't drink much tea or instant coffee. Consumers would often boil water in pans if they made tea or instant coffee!

I thought so.

The Single Market wasn't created until 1992. What you say was right about the 1980's, which is why the Single Market was created. It solved these issues. I have very little good to say about Margaret Thatcher, but credit where it is due, she was the main architect or driver of this development.

The Single Market meant an agreed set of rules and standards, agreed compliance inspections and an agreed dispute resolution mechanism. What that meant was that anything made within the EU 27 countries could be traded and sold automatically anywhere in the EU without any of that standards nonsense, tariffs and much simplified paperwork. That also extends to goods from any countries the EU has Trade Deals with. Those goods will be subject to checks at the point of entry and sometimes even the factories will be subject to inspection, but once in a shop in the EU a consumer can have trust that the product is of a standard they expect.

Please tell me you knew all that and one of the criteria you used to vote in 2016 was not Kettle DIN standards in the 1980's?
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
I mentioned the kettles because I worked for Philips Electronics then, it was used to illustrate the culture of protectionism that often does not change overnight. I do not know what it was like after 1992 because I was not there then. Philips was longing forward to the abandonning of National borders and National standards as it had factories all over Western Europe some interconnected. Unfortunately the company has struggled since 1993. The market for electronics is more global and I would guess more half its UK base had been closed in the last 30 years including large factories at Durham and Washington in the North East.

I found the Dutch were reasonable as they are more natural traders and merchants. so better understand flexibility and compromise. The Germans were more rigid and because the German market is large and central they felt more others should bend to them rather the other way round.

Once standards are agreed and accepted life is easier, but getting everyone to agree to same standards can be very difficult when many nations have different points of view.
 

festa5

Well-known member
Our increasing prosperity in the Victorian/Edwardian age was built on promoting free global trade and having a competitive edge.

Sorry, what? **** me. Still, can't argue we had a competitive edge. Not sure they way we got that edge is a viable option this time round though.

Harking back to the "golden era" of the British Empire when defending brexit. Beyond parody.

Congratulations you have achieved peak Brexiter. Your special edition, Nigel Farage signed blue passport is on its way.
 
Last edited:

SmallTown

Well-known member
Sorry, what? **** me. Still can't argue we had a competitive edge. Not sure they way we got that edge is a viable option this time round though.

Harking back to the "golden era" of the British Empire when defending brexit. Beyond parody.

Congratulations you have achieved peak Brexiter. Your special edition, Nigel Farage signed blue passport is on its way.
I'm glad you said that. When I saw his ridiculous rebuild the empire comments I realised what a Brexit cult he was
 

Lefty

Well-known member
I mentioned the kettles because I worked for Philips Electronics then, it was used to illustrate the culture of protectionism that often does not change overnight. I do not know what it was like after 1992 because I was not there then. Philips was longing forward to the abandonning of National borders and National standards as it had factories all over Western Europe some interconnected. Unfortunately the company has struggled since 1993. The market for electronics is more global and I would guess more half its UK base had been closed in the last 30 years including large factories at Durham and Washington in the North East.

I found the Dutch were reasonable as they are more natural traders and merchants. so better understand flexibility and compromise. The Germans were more rigid and because the German market is large and central they felt more others should bend to them rather the other way round.

Once standards are agreed and accepted life is easier, but getting everyone to agree to same standards can be very difficult when many nations have different points of view.

Not just nations. There are competing interests which cross borders and are actually more important than national self interest, such as business, workers and consumers interests, or environmental ones. In truth, national interests largely boil down to the blend of those broader competing interests within a nations culture anyway. Depending on your personal politics it is therefore easy to find things to complain about regarding the EU. Those on the right can find examples where they dislike some of the constraints on business, those on the left that it could offer more protection for workers etc. The EU does a pretty good job of balancing all these things and the various national interests. And it is an evolving institution.

It does tend to be slow. What it does is consult widely, deliberate carefully, balance competing interests, engage experts and technocrats and generally come to pretty good technical and legislative solutions to the everyday issues in the end. That is because it realises that process is important. If you get the decision making process right then it only leaves the final value judgement for a mistake to creep in. If you don't get the process right, your potential for error is significantly greater. Getting the process right, means being thorough, which is slow. Speeding things up often means cutting corners on the process, so it can mean a wrong response implemented quickly. That might be worse than no response. Process is baked in to the EU. It has to be. All the competing nations and lobbyists insisted on having some representation and voice in it and they keep a beady eye that what was painstakingly agreed is stuck to.

Consequently the EU is not good at responding quickly to new crises. It's just not well set up for that. That wasn't it's purpose so that shouldn't be a surprise. Countries are jealous of their sovereignty so the EU is on the one hand hampered by curbs on its powers by this yet on the other expected to quickly respond in a way that requires powers it has not always been granted. If you want it to solve them it means giving it more powers. Until a crisis looms, no-one is prepared to do it, but at that point it is too late. Afterwards, it tends to learn lessons and devise something better to put in place for next time or even put measures in place to avoid the same thing happening again.

Post Brexit the UK ought to be able to respond quickly to new crises and quicker should equal better, but our long term everyday measures will probably be less well considered and legislated for, so ultimately will mean deficiencies compared to the EU. Neither of these has to be true, but probably will.
 

WeeGord

Well-known member
Let's keep this the right side of debating folks, @Redwurzel is by far and away one of the most considered Brexit supporters on here and always gives thought and reason to his arguments even if we don't agree with them. He is also very respectful and doesn't get involved in insults so let's all reciprocate.

As you are most likely aware I am a staunch remainer and very much anti-Brexit so I say this not as some sort of defence of his position, but as someone who respects the adult approach he takes to the debates despite having a different opinion to many of the posters on the board.
 

ThePrisoner

Well-known member
Yay, more winning!

Apart from Luftwaffe air raids this is what it must have been like during the war. The Brexiteers wet dream come to pass!

I may build an Anderson shelter in the back garden though. Just in case.
 

ThePrisoner

Well-known member
Let's keep this the right side of debating folks, @Redwurzel is by far and away one of the most considered Brexit supporters on here and always gives thought and reason to his arguments even if we don't agree with them. He is also very respectful and doesn't get involved in insults so let's all reciprocate.

As you are most likely aware I am a staunch remainer and very much anti-Brexit so I say this not as some sort of defence of his position, but as someone who respects the adult approach he takes to the debates despite having a different opinion to many of the posters on the board.

He has said some incredibly naive things though. So naive I suspect he is just trolling.

Asking why companies are having problems exporting to the EU now that GB has left the single market and customs union. Unable to join the dots. God knows I am just an average drone but even I get it.

https://fmttmboro.com/index.php?thr...d-re-consequences-of-brexit.22976/post-525493
 

WeeGord

Well-known member
He has said some incredibly naive things though. So naive I suspect he is just trolling.

Asking why companies are having problems exporting to the EU now that GB has left the single market and customs union. Unable to join the dots. God knows I am just an average drone but even I get it.

https://fmttmboro.com/index.php?thr...d-re-consequences-of-brexit.22976/post-525493
I genuniely believe there are posters on here who troll and who post stupid things to try and garner a response from others and I genuinely believe there are shills on here.

I don't ever get that feeling with Redwurzel and have always considered him a very good poster on all subjects. Whether we think some of his points are naive is reasonable same as he may consider some of ours to be too. However, he is always polite and respectful unlike some other posters and at least tries to debate instead of the usual 'you lost, get over it' rubbish that some spout.

For that reason alone we should show him the same respect even if we have different viewpoints and opinions.
 

Laughing

Well-known member
And for those who contend gas prices are purely a global problem...

View attachment 24893
Harry I don't think the price hike on fuel is too do with our relationship with the EU. We just had much lower reserves than the rest of Europe. Energy is and I believe always had been tariff free in and out of the EU.

It's **** poor management from the government.
 

ThePrisoner

Well-known member
Harry I don't think the price hike on fuel is too do with our relationship with the EU. We just had much lower reserves than the rest of Europe. Energy is and I believe always had been tariff free in and out of the EU.

It's **** poor management from the government.
But surely this is a direct inevitable consequence of the Tory ideology that privatised energy in the first place. Holding stock is dead money so like so many other businesses the gas companies got rid of it and operate a JIT model.

A few thousand oaps might freeze to death and millions will have to eat uncooked food (if they can find and afford it) but think of the added value for shareholders! I'm betting Reece-Mogg et al are making a killing on this.
 

LaPennaBianca

Well-known member
Harry I don't think the price hike on fuel is too do with our relationship with the EU. We just had much lower reserves than the rest of Europe. Energy is and I believe always had been tariff free in and out of the EU.

It's **** poor management from the government.
Our Prime Minister owes his position to Brexit, where he lied and promised lower energy prices.

Ultimately if you voted for the Tory Brexit project you're in on this.
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
Cheers Wee Gord and the more open minded posters. I try to ignore the disrepectful trolls and not take the bait and/or behave like them. To me they are showing their true colours in their posts. They don't want open debate and not interested in listening for positive purposes. More like hacklers. I nearly always show my thinking and tend to show evidence/practice rather than the theory. I accept there can be misunderstandings and I am not perfect at expressing myself, and people will have differences of opinion, but I can 100% reassure everyone I am not a troll or egotist. Possibly I have a weakness in believing in the best of other posters and that others have an open outlook too in that sense I have finding I am misplaced in some instances.

Anyone - When Boro fans go to the Riverside - what words do they see on the painted on the Wall by a local poet near the Bridge Inn?

The words express that around the year 1900 Teesside had world class expertise in bridge building and iron and steel manufacture. Today the area (to me) needs to replicate similar expertise in something of value be it computer software, wind turbines, carbon capture, hydrogen, etc etc. In 1900 Teesside steel products were commonly found all over the world including Europe. This wealth was reflected in expansion of the local and health of local economy even at MFC. I am not doing this to hark back to the past, but its a strong wish for the future. In 2021 its has nothing to do with blue passports and British Empire! which I could not give a toss about, but I am interested developing global expertise in the 2020s and beyond on Teesside. Some might say that could be done in the EU/EEC, and I would not disagree if the right conditions were in place, but it has not really happened has it since 1993? or even 1973? Unless others know different, of course. Please give details if you do. I do listen and willing to change.

Ref problems exporting into the EU in 2021 from GB and highlighting how the EU is making life difficult for some. I am trying to show issues now, and the double standards used by the EU, saying we should not have left is not really helpful or saying I am just niave or I just don't understand and incapable of joining up dots. The thread was about consequences of leaving, some British food producers are being punished from what I can see. Is this accurate to say? is it fair to them, is it morally correct? is it fair to consumers in the EU? Is it helping free trade? Is it increasing economic activity for the benefit of all?
 
Top
X