What the British Public has noticed re consequences of Brexit

Redwurzel

Well-known member
The model of imported labour from cheaper areas of Eastern Europe was covering underlying problems in this country, in the Blair/Brown and Cameron years. As the years have gone on this supply of cheap young labour was drying up any way. While the tap was on, British employers could continue to discriminate against segments of its own population (e.g older workers, disabled workers) and in some cases avoid doing significant training and investment (e.g hand picking fruit and veg). Employers could also drive down wages e.g. pay £20k a year for driving large lorries for unsocial hours. Its interesting how wages in low paid jobs have increased well above inflation in recent times, but less so certainly before Covid.

The UK owes a gratitude to the millions of young (often former communist country) workers who came to this country, but it is and was not sustainable, certainly not to the scale of of the 1997-2016 years . Those countries have increased their own wealth significantly since 1997.

Free and fair trade with all countries I am very much in favour of. The EU as an institute is a bit his and miss on this, it believes in free and fair trade with the EU, but historically not as keen outside the EU. The evidence can now be seen in increased difficulties exporting into the EU.

Ref Gas - why hasn't anyone invested in more in gas and electricity storage in the UK? Why has it taken 25 years to build a new Nuclear power station? Why has it taken so long to invest large scale in off shore wind turbines? If EVs and Ground Heat pumps are the near future why is so little invested in electricity generation? Why do import a lot Electricity from France (now down because of a fire)? I don't know the answer but this should have been happening for at least 10 years now, long before we left the EU. Cameron, May and Johnson have over seen these years.
 
Last edited:

SmallTown

Well-known member
The model of imported labour from cheaper areas of Eastern Europe was covering underlying problems in this country, in the Blair/Brown and Cameron years. As the years have gone on this supply of cheap young labour was drying up any way. While the tap was on, British employers could continue to discriminate against segments of its own population (e.g older workers, disabled workers) and in some cases avoid doing significant training and investment (e.g hand picking fruit and veg). Employers could also drive down wages e.g. pay £20k a year for driving large lorries for unsocial hours. Its interesting how wages in low paid jobs have increased well above inflation in recent times, but less so certainly before Covid.

The UK owes a gratitude to the millions of young (often former communist country) workers who came to this country, but it is and was not sustainable, certainly not to the scale of of the 1997-2016 years . Those countries have increased their own wealth significantly since 1997.

Free and fair trade with all countries I am very much in favour of. The EU as an institute is a bit his and miss on this, it believes in free and fair trade with the EU, but historically not as keen outside the EU. The evidence can now be seen in increased difficulties exporting into the EU.
See my earlier comments. We've got to a point were even an energy crisis and a 3 day week caused by brexit has to be ignored. The deflections will begin, the EU will get the blame. Life will go on, albeit in a limited and much less prosperous way, because the Brexit cult just can't bring its;f to admit it was wrong and has been lied to.

The country will continue to regress, and some people will just deflect and excuse and ignore the cause. Reading people on here like Red and Immigrant Smoggie is just so depressing. They are watching the country collapse and they can't even acknowledge why.
 

JackG

Well-known member
Did you even look at the LCPEnact figures? The UK is paying way more than the rest of Europe. All down to Brexit.
The LCPEnact figures show that Ireland is even worse hit than GB. This supports the view that the proximate cause of GBs current position relative to the EU is the interconnector failure, not Brexit. This has a knock-on effect in the Irish market as we're no longer exporting power via the East-West interconnector.
 

BiggEggo

Well-known member
I'm half expecting Boris to have his team look into how they can get the UK's inactive volcanoes back into work, to help with winter heating bills.
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
ST wrote

The country will continue to regress, and some people will just deflect and excuse and ignore the cause. Reading people on here like Red and Immigrant Smoggie is just so depressing. They are watching the country collapse and they can't even acknowledge why.


Incorrect my friend - I have explained why we have some difficulties, such as ignoring part of our own population, lack of sufficient investment and training, medium term decline in the supply of cheap young labour from Eastern Europe. Leaving the EU is not the MAIN reason for the majority of problems in this country but some are using it as the MAIN reason. By blaming the UK exit from the European Union for our problems is a deflection. If we returned to the EU our problems in general would still be there such as disjointed economy, growing income and wealth inequality, fast growing Government debt, too low level of investments, too low a level of training particularly vocational training, climate change, declining social standards such as drug misuse, anti social behaviour gambling and alcohol misuse, discrimination of many minorities such as the 20% of the population that have a disability.

You maybe convinced the country is collasping but I am not of the same view, it is going through greater than average change that is true. Some people are doing well from the changes witness increasing National job vacancies and increasing wage rates. Collapsing for me was 1973/4 when the lights went out for a good part of the week for everyone, and we got the candles out and people went to bed at 8pm. The price of petrol went up from around 11p per gallon to around 33p per gallon in six months.

Strangely enough I am not depressed about the future as I believe, change is on balance, good for the UK, it has to learn to stand more on its own 2 feet. It can't drift as much as it used to. It can no longer write off chunks of its people for a life in a left behind economy and has to release the potential of all of its own citizens not just the more lucky ones.
 

Smoginexile

Well-known member
Our home is burning down around us and we are arguing about whose fault it is.
The flames are starting to hurt now.
Some stranger in her 20's just knocked on my door begging for food.
Working people are now needing to go to food banks because wages are so low.
Energy companies are going bust.
Benefits are getting cut.
Supermarkets are saying we could run out of stuff soon.
Does it matter who caused it?
We just need to put the fire out.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
To go back to the original graphs I posted, is the different perception down to the press sources people read or the human psychology of people seeing what they want to?
 

festa5

Well-known member
Our home is burning down around us and we are arguing about whose fault it is.
The flames are starting to hurt now.
Some stranger in her 20's just knocked on my door begging for food.
Working people are now needing to go to food banks because wages are so low.
Energy companies are going bust.
Benefits are getting cut.
Supermarkets are saying we could run out of stuff soon.
Does it matter who caused it?
We just need to put the fire out.

Of course it matters who caused it. Because the incompetent corrupt b***ds who caused it are still running the show and although they'd presumably like to put the fire out they'd like to do so at as little cost as possible to themselves, if not actually find a way to make some money from it.

So it absolutely matters who caused it and the sooner people realise it and send them packing, the quicker things will turn around.
 

Way_Out_West

Well-known member
Strangely enough I am not depressed about the future as I believe, change is on balance, good for the UK, it has to learn to stand more on its own 2 feet. It can't drift as much as it used to. It can no longer write off chunks of its people for a life in a left behind economy and has to release the potential of all of its own citizens not just the more lucky ones.
That's not the way the world works these days. It's all about collaboration and cooperation, and we need to learn that we can't stand alone. We are part of a global community, and need other countries' goods, labour and services to survive.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Of course it matters who caused it. Because the incompetent corrupt b***ds who caused it are still running the show and although they'd presumably like to put the fire out they'd like to do so at as little cost as possible to themselves, if not actually find a way to make some money from it.

So it absolutely matters who caused it and the sooner people realise it and send them packing, the quicker things will turn around.

I would argue that it is also important to understand that what caused it was a failure in process, the decision making process of 17million people. It wasn’t different values in most cases, it was a failure of process.

When bad decisions are taken it is nearly always a failure in process, where the usual safeguards are ignored and the decision is taken too soon in the process by people.

This is important because on another issue us Remainers are just as susceptible.
 

festa5

Well-known member
I would argue that it is also important to understand that what caused it was a failure in process, the decision making process of 17million people. It wasn’t different values in most cases, it was a failure of process.

When bad decisions are taken it is nearly always a failure in process, where the usual safeguards are ignored and the decision is taken too soon in the process by people.

This is important because on another issue us Remainers are just as susceptible.

Well yeah, you could (and people probably do) write dissertations on it. How and why got to the point we did, from people's decision making processes, the role of social media/media, use of data etc etc. To an extent were seeing the same things happening again and again (Trump's various propoganda like mail fraud, anti vaxxers etc).

What issue are you talking about re: remainers? I'm sure you're right, genuinely interested, this stuff fascinates me (as much as brexit infuriates me).
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Well yeah, you could (and people probably do) write dissertations on it. How and why got to the point we did, from people's decision making processes, the role of social media/media, use of data etc etc. To an extent were seeing the same things happening again and again (Trump's various propoganda like mail fraud, anti vaxxers etc).

What issue are you talking about re: remainers? I'm sure you're right, genuinely interested, this stuff fascinates me (as much as brexit infuriates me).

I’ll do a thread.
 

Ziggy

Well-known member
4 pages of good analysis of the problems we have, and will face.
There is however the ever present…Elephant in the room. Unless we all start addressing it soon, given the way the current ‘Junta’ have demolished the …Good Chaps fiasco that passes for our constitutional arrangements. There won’t be a lot left.
Total Democratic Deficit
Just look at the graphic and ask. “What’s wrong with this picture?”

“ Approximately 32 million people voted in the United Kingdom's general election of 2019, with 13.94 million of these votes going to the Conservative party. The Labour Party received the second highest number of votes at 10.29 million, with the Liberal Democrats earning the third highest number of votes at 3.67 million”


 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
That's not the way the world works these days. It's all about collaboration and cooperation, and we need to learn that we can't stand alone. We are part of a global community, and need other countries' goods, labour and services to survive.
Possibly I used the wrong words in a long reply. The context I meant was pay for itself. I am all for working globally including European countries. I already wrote I was for free and fair trade. We need to increase our trade particularly exports. For example we need to agree on lower carbon emissions, finding ways of increasing trade for all nations to reduce global poverty, ending armed conflicts etc. The EU is a protectionist organisation at its heart, evidence all the red tape and restriction now on the exactly the same goods and services that were exported without any restrictions say 12 months ago. The EU will say they are protecting the standards of good and services entering the single market, but protecting producers within the EU is the main reason. The EU works well for some nations say Republic of Ireland, but not all.
 

ThePrisoner

Well-known member
Possibly I used the wrong words in a long reply. The context I meant was pay for itself. I am all for working globally including European countries. I already wrote I was for free and fair trade. We need to increase our trade particularly exports. For example we need to agree on lower carbon emissions, finding ways of increasing trade for all nations to reduce global poverty, ending armed conflicts etc. The EU is a protectionist organisation at its heart, evidence all the red tape and restriction now on the exactly the same goods and services that were exported without any restrictions say 12 months ago. The EU will say they are protecting the standards of good and services entering the single market, but protecting producers within the EU is the main reason. The EU works well for some nations say Republic of Ireland, but not all.

The EU has created a large free trade bubble where none existed before, yet it is protectionist? Has it not eliminated red tape between countries that existed previously?
 
Top
X