re the foden situation - he needs to be played

BoroMart said:
But he runs with pace and power and is more of a goal threat than Foden, it isn't just about running in behind. We needed an internatinoal goal scorer on the pitch, so Rashford was the most obvious choice
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I know its not just about running in behind but Rashford is more of a threat against teams who are defending higher up the pitch. Thats pretty obvious when you watch him play, he scores more goals than Foden but Foden has attributes that Rushford doesn't have as well.
 
BoroMart said:
playing wide is very different to central. Vision and awareness is much more important when you are central. He's played that #8 role 5 times in 2 1/2 years. The idea that he will suddenly be a game changer for England in a role that he has barely played for his club, despite doing very little in 19 England appearances is a gamble at best, fanciful at worst.

He has predominantly played out wide for City, and he doesn't need to worry about what is behind him in that role. It's totally different. I do think eventually he is equipped to play that role but it'll take 12 months of playing regularly to learn it
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I'm not talking about a number 8 role, I suggested him playing as a number 10 in a 4231, thats completely different to what you are talking about.

International football is different to club football and players can play in slightly different roles to the club positions. Look at Kyle Walker he's a full back at City and a centre back with England. We're not talking about huge changes but tweaks to how they play with their clubs.

If Foden is as good as I think he is and as good as a lot of the country think he is I think he could play as a 10, his touch, vision and awareness are as good as anyone we've got in the squad.
 
Uwefuchs said:
I'm not talking about a number 8 role, I suggested him playing as a number 10 in a 4231, thats completely different to what you are talking about.
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It's still the same issue though, he hasn't played it regularly and it requires 360 awareness, if he isn't playing that role regularly he isn't going to be building that skill.

Uwefuchs said:
If Foden is as good as I think he is and as good as a lot of the country think he is I think he could play as a 10, his touch, vision and awareness are as good as anyone we've got in the squad.
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Yet he hasn't shown that in an England shirt in 19 games.

As mentioned above, he is another saviour by not being in the side and as soon as he is in someone else will get that label
 
We need to remember Foden is only 22 and has had 19 caps. He hasn't pulled up any trees for England so far but he's a very talented player and we need to continue giving him chances, in the hope that it will eventually click for him in an England shirt.

He was poor when he started vs Germany in the Nations League game but we were set up to play on the counter, which doesn't suit his game. We will have a lot of the ball vs Wales, so I'm intrigued to see how he will do if he starts, especially in the no 10 role.
 
Alan_Breck said:
When I looked at the team sheet to start, then those left on the subs bench, I couldn't believe what I was reading. Southgate picked a team not to get beat but leaving Foden and Rashford out of the starting line up was criminal in my opinion. There has to be more thought given to team selection for Tuesday's game against Wales or we'll be home before the postcards.

#UTB
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He picked a team not to get beat or stuck by the team that won 6-2?
 
BoroMart said:
It's still the same issue though, he hasn't played it regularly and it requires 360 awareness, if he isn't playing that role regularly he isn't going to be building that skill.


Yet he hasn't shown that in an England shirt in 19 games.

As mentioned above, he is another saviour by not being in the side and as soon as he is in someone else will get that label
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Foden is getting stick for not doing it for England, his longest run of games was between the last euros and this world cup but let's be honest the team were absolutely rank in that period it wasn't just Foden.

I know he hasn't played his best for England in that period but very few have.

As for him not having 360 degree awareness thats just rubbish, its almost like you haven't watched him play for City.

I get the argument that Southgate likes a certain type of player and if he gets results then that justifies every decision he makes. That doesn't mean to say we wouldn't have got a result playing in a different style either.

There's got to be an alternative viewpoint allowed, it seems like we're not allowed to give any constructive criticism on this board towards Southgate without it being classed as some sort of agenda.
 
Every other nation will be laughing at us for benching Foden.

It's like Spain benching Gavi or Pedri.
It's like Germany benching Musiala
It's like Brazil benching Vinicius Jr
It's like France benching Mbappe

Quite ridiculous.

I couldn't care less what he's done in an England shirt previously. The team should be built around 2 players. Foden & Bellingham. The rest should fit around those 2.

Those 2 are lightyears ahead of the rest of that squad in terms of quality. (Kane is definitely up there btw, before I get ridiculed).

If England are going to be successful, ever, in the next 10/15 years, then it'll be because of Foden & Bellingham.

And to answer a few who keep saying 'who do you drop'....you can drop literally anyone for all I care.

Foden should be the first name on the team sheet., along side Bellingham's name.
 
Uwefuchs said:
As for him not having 360 degree awareness thats just rubbish, its almost like you haven't watched him play for City.
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Well said Uwe. This is one of the things that sets him apart from the rest - his vision and understanding of the game around him. He is brilliant in small pockets of space for City, but his England team mates often don't trust him enough to give him the ball in those pockets. Yet he rarely loses it and often he is deliberately pulling opposition players around with him to free up space for team mates to exploit.

I'd also add that he is often thinking 2 or 3 passes ahead of everyone else. Just watch him whenever he passes the ball - he is always telling the recipient where it should go next.

I'd settle for Foden getting a start on the left against Wales, but long-term he needs to be played centrally where he can conduct the orchestra.
 
Marvanelli said:
Every other nation will be laughing at us for benching Foden.

It's like Spain benching Gavi or Pedri.
It's like Germany benching Musiala
It's like Brazil benching Vinicius Jr
It's like France benching Mbappe

Quite ridiculous.

I couldn't care less what he's done in an England shirt previously. The team should be built around 2 players. Foden & Bellingham. The rest should fit around those 2.

Those 2 are lightyears ahead of the rest of that squad in terms of quality. (Kane is definitely up there btw, before I get ridiculed).

If England are going to be successful, ever, in the next 10/15 years, then it'll be because of Foden & Bellingham.

And to answer a few who keep saying 'who do you drop'....you can drop literally anyone for all I care.

Foden should be the first name on the team sheet., along side Bellingham's name.
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Marvanelli, I seem to recall you waxing lyrical over Grealish during the euro's. I do wonder where that went. I think someone above mentioned that whoever isn't playing is the reason we are failing, and it's probably true.

And to be fair you weren't the only one, I think Jedi was doing the same during the euros.
 
Laughing said:
Marvanelli, I seem to recall you waxing lyrical over Grealish during the euro's. I do wonder where that went. I think someone above mentioned that whoever isn't playing is the reason we are failing, and it's probably true.

And to be fair you weren't the only one, I think Jedi was doing the same during the euros.
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And I still stand by that during the Euro's. Grealish changed the game in that Semi-final against Denmark which resulted in us getting to the final.

Southgate then persisted with Mount - who was appalling all game against Italy - and it took until 99 minutes for him to be hooked for Grealish.

I honestly believe we would have stood a far better chance of lifting that trophy if we gave Grealish more minutes.

IMO, Grealish would get in that England first 11 now, although I do agree that's up for argument more so than Foden being a cert to start.

I can understand why some may not start Grealish, but I don't see any logic whatsoever in Foden being benched (other than if the game is a dead rubber).
 
Marvanelli said:
And I still stand by that during the Euro's. Grealish changed the game in that Semi-final against Denmark which resulted in us getting to the final.

Southgate then persisted with Mount - who was appalling all game against Italy - and it took until 99 minutes for him to be hooked for Grealish.

I honestly believe we would have stood a far better chance of lifting that trophy if we gave Grealish more minutes.

IMO, Grealish would get in that England first 11 now, although I do agree that's up for argument more so than Foden being a cert to start.

I can understand why some may not start Grealish, but I don't see any logic whatsoever in Foden being benched (other than if the game is a dead rubber).
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I think my point here is that Grealish was better when he was on the bench, not an uncommon phenomena.

I didn't see the USA game, in fact I haven't watched any WC games, so you may want to take what i say with a pinch of salt. However, I believe Southgate was looking after qualification before winning the game. In my opinion he was right to do so. Had he made different changes we may have lost the game and been in a must not loose situation against Wales. Pragmatism is generally not something football fans care for.
 
Laughing said:
I think my point here is that Grealish was better when he was on the bench, not an uncommon phenomena.

I didn't see the USA game, in fact I haven't watched any WC games, so you may want to take what i say with a pinch of salt. However, I believe Southgate was looking after qualification before winning the game. In my opinion he was right to do so. Had he made different changes we may have lost the game and been in a must not loose situation against Wales. Pragmatism is generally not something football fans care for.
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I totally understand the game against USA was more important in not losing, than winning.

But IMO starting Foden wouldn't have hindered our chances of 'not losing'. In fact, it would have probably given us a bigger chance of winning and pretty much confirming top spot of the group.
 
Marvanelli said:
And I still stand by that during the Euro's. Grealish changed the game in that Semi-final against Denmark which resulted in us getting to the final.

Southgate then persisted with Mount - who was appalling all game against Italy - and it took until 99 minutes for him to be hooked for Grealish.

I honestly believe we would have stood a far better chance of lifting that trophy if we gave Grealish more minutes.

IMO, Grealish would get in that England first 11 now, although I do agree that's up for argument more so than Foden being a cert to start.

I can understand why some may not start Grealish, but I don't see any logic whatsoever in Foden being benched (other than if the game is a dead rubber).
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I agree and I stand by it as well.

As good players make teams or should I say squads better at international level.

There is no argument for not playing foden at all in 90 mins non esp

when you didn’t win

I agree Bellingham and foden are or should be the future of England.
 
Marvanelli said:
I totally understand the game against USA was more important in not losing, than winning.

But IMO starting Foden wouldn't have hindered our chances of 'not losing'. In fact, it would have probably given us a bigger chance of winning and pretty much confirming top spot of the group.
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And I would guess that was the equation Southgate did and didn't concur. Rightly or wrongly.
 
Jedi boro said:
The only issue with that is That it makes the wales game a lot bigger than it needed to be.
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Or easier than it might have been. We can't just assume going more attacking would have resulted in a better outcome. Wales are weaker than the USA too.
 
Kane, Sterling, Saka, Foden, Grealish, Maddison, Rashford. All outstanding footballers in their own right. You can’t play them all. And certainly not after you’ve just won 6-2 and are trying to progress through a difficult group in a pressurised situation.

I guarantee that if Southgate had started Foden and we’d drawn 0-0, those on this thread demanding Foden’s inclusion would’ve been incredulous that Southgate had had the brass neck to leave Saka or Grealish on the bench. Which is exactly what they did during the Euros, when we reached the final for the first time.

We see it with Boro TBF. Boro players ALWAYS seem to get better the more games they don’t play.
 
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