Tees Valley to lose £13million due to Brexit

[Unravel_Morrison]

Currently I don't trust Labour to create more equality as much as I should, too many vested interested in the status quo as we saw in the Blair years. Still they should be doing more to rebalance the difference between the £21m and the £175m figures and be fair to Teesside.

If you're going on their previous record under Blair, then that should encourage you as much as anything. The spending increases on health and education in themselves that the Tories have gone back on would certainly encourage me.

 

[Unravel_Morrison]

Why is an insult always a requirement of Remain?

I was never that fanatical a Brexiteer, I was 50 50. It was when I was reading on here that the vote should be null and void because people were too thick to understand the question I thought, nah.

So you changed your mind because some people you don't agree with said nasty things that you don't even think apply to you? Wowsers.

Some people are and were too thick to understand the question. Both remain and leave voters.

That's life.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Why is an insult always a requirement of Remain?

I was never that fanatical a Brexiteer, I was 50 50. It was when I was reading on here that the vote should be null and void because people were too thick to understand the question I thought, nah.

You were too thick to understand the lies of the Tory right and the gravity of the decision to leave on this country if you did get fooled into voting leave by cummings strategy directed at the limited thinkers of this country

 

[Chappy112]

I'm using that "technique" because you are being ignorant of the facts. Your entire argument is childlike. You are operating classic Tory distraction techniques to mask your own issues.

Let's break it down:

1. Has Brexit prevented us spending the exact same amount on the region that was previously spent by the EU?
2. Have the Tories decided not to spend the exact same amount on the region that was previously spent by the EU?

If 1 is the answer then it is a Brexit problem. If 2 is the answer then it is a Tory problem.

If it's a Tory problem then the blame lies with the people that voted Tory.
If it's a Brexit problem then the blame lies with people that voted for Brexit and/or the people that voted Tory in order to "Get Brexit Done".

Where do you land here? I know you are some sort of "reformed Tory" these days, although you'll undoubtedly vote for them again when it suits you, just like last time as I haven't seen you come out as pro-anyone else yet. But even you must recognise and accept the fact that you voting for them and now regretting it means you were either conned, selfish, ignorant or stupid (or a combination of the above). When people voted for Brexit it wasn't 100% clear how things would end up. When they voted for the Tories at the last election it was. You can't pretend they are doing anything other than what the rest of us knew they would do which means you were happy with the policy of shafting the poor and the northern towns as usual att voting time so what has changed? Tories are just being Tories, exactly as you wanted them to be.

P.S. By the way, the answer is 2. We are free to spend as much as we like on the region, Brexit hasn't stopped us in the slightest. The Tories have decided not to.

Voting for Brexit gave Tories free reign to shaft us as much as they wanted, everyone who was clued up realised this would happen.

It is both a Brexit and a Tory issue, arguing over which one is to blame seems rather silly.

 

[SmallTown]

Voting for Brexit gave Tories free reign to shaft us as much as they wanted, everyone who was clued up realised this would happen.

It is both a Brexit and a Tory issue, arguing over which one is to blame seems rather silly.

It's not silly if you're embarrassed you were conned but too much of a coward to admit it. As I keep saying, people like @Nano are the reason we are in such a mess. Their flat refusal to address it. Its genuinely sad.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Currently I don't trust Labour to create more equality as much as I should, too many vested interested in the status quo as we saw in the Blair years. Still they should be doing more to rebalance the difference between the £21m and the £175m figures and be fair to Teesside.

Blair's government didn't go anywhere near enough with regards to reducing equality at the time but they made tremendous inroads into the damage done during the Thatcher/Major era.

I was a LEA school governor at a couple of primary schools at the time. Both schools were in a poor state of repair by the time Blair was elected, the improvements we were allowed to make brought the schools into the era we were then living in.

I knocked Blair and Brown a lot at the time, they were far too soft on corporate corruption and tax avoidance, the wealth gap didn't close and they had some crazy theories about PFI.

Let's not pretend that they were anywhere near as savage as those preceding and succeeding them, it's simply not true.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

Voting for Brexit gave Tories free reign to shaft us as much as they wanted, everyone who was clued up realised this would happen.

It is both a Brexit and a Tory issue, arguing over which one is to blame seems rather silly.

Brexit is gone, the promises about nobody losing out have been broken by the Tories in the years since.

Voting against Brexit then voting for this government to get Brexit done is unbelievable.

 

[Same_as_before]

You were too thick to understand the lies of the Tory right and the gravity of the decision to leave on this country if you did get fooled into voting leave by cummings strategy directed at the limited thinkers of this country

Proof in the pudding. I told you I am not unlike you a part of the metropolitan elite. I duly doff my cap to you oh learned one.

You are not the first on here to call me thick as mince, you are way behind CtC.

 

[SmallTown]

Brexit is gone, the promises about nobody losing out have been broken by the Tories in the years since.

Voting against Brexit then voting for this government to get Brexit done is unbelievable.

It's not done and it's not unbelievable. But let's let off everyone who voted to isolate the country

 

[BaronSmoggie]

Brexit is gone, the promises about nobody losing out have been broken by the Tories in the years since.

Voting against Brexit then voting for this government to get Brexit done is unbelievable.

Tend to agree. If you voted for Brexit (I did), and then voted Tory in 2019 (4 years later, I didn't), you must have known what these ***** were going to do, hell May had set the ball rolling down this crashing path.

That makes a Tory voter of 2019 partially complicit in the Brexit nightmare we find ourselves in. Not as much as those of us who voted for it, but some.

 

[Same_as_before]

What is this Brexit nightmare you are living in?

 

[BaronSmoggie]

What is this Brexit nightmare you are living in?

Not me, using it in the context of this thread.

 

[Same_as_before]

Not me, using it in the context of this thread.

That made me laugh, cheers.

 

[Redwurzel]

Blair's government didn't go anywhere near enough with regards to reducing equality at the time but they made tremendous inroads into the damage done during the Thatcher/Major era.

I was a LEA school governor at a couple of primary schools at the time. Both schools were in a poor state of repair by the time Blair was elected, the improvements we were allowed to make brought the schools into the era we were then living in.

I knocked Blair and Brown a lot at the time, they were far too soft on corporate corruption and tax avoidance, the wealth gap didn't close and they had some crazy theories about PFI.

Let's not pretend that they were anywhere near as savage as those preceding and succeeding them, it's simply not true.

Public Health and Public Education were improved under Blair and Brown, but many manufacturing and even service jobs were lost on Teesside. It felt like children were getting educated for jobs well away from areas like Teesside. Unemployment figures were massaged to some extent with putting people onto other welfare benefits or early retirement.

 

[Same_as_before]

So you changed your mind because some people you don't agree with said nasty things that you don't even think apply to you? Wowsers.

Some people are and were too thick to understand the question. Both remain and leave voters.

That's life.

I assume you put yourself in the bracket of those understood. Self praise as my mum used to say....

 

[Redwurzel]

Neither side of the EU referendum seemed to issue many facts particularly economic facts. For me the Remain side were the most lacking, it felt like trust us we know best for you and when that came from the mouth of David Cameron it was very difficult to believe. Btw I never saw the Boris Bus in the campaign before anyone brings that up.

 

[Way_Out_West]

Neither side of the EU referendum seemed to issue many facts particularly economic facts. For me the Remain side were the most lacking, it felt like trust us we know best for you and when that came from the mouth of David Cameron it was very difficult to believe. Btw I never saw the Boris Bus in the campaign before anyone brings that up.

I don't think anyone would argue that remain didn't have a terrible campaign, and got their tactics completely wrong. However, if you're going on economic facts even the slightest bit of research would have led you to the conclusion that remaining was far better for the UK economically.

 

[Nero]

This thread hasn't mentioned another massive factor hammering Teesside;

Despite the spin from Tories like Houchen the Teesside region is something like £25 billion worse off because of Tory Austerity alone. Even before the stupid decision to leave the EU the Tories implemented an austerity designed to hit the poorer areas most.

The so called "levelling up" is total ***** and a buzz word to continue deceiving the masses.

 

[Liamo]

Remember how immigration impacting on public services isn't an immigration problem, it is a government funding problem?

This is a straw man argument. It proceeds from the assumption that there is a negative impact on public services due to immigration (and that we then have to ascribe that impact to something or other).

However there is no negative impact on public services from immigration, as numerous studies have shown.

Here are some extracts from one, from the Centre for Economic Performance.

Dustmann and Frattini (2014) find that EU immigrants made a positive fiscal contribution.
They paid more in taxes than they received in welfare payments. A8 immigrants paid in about
£15 billion more than they took out in public spending in the decade up to 2011. [...] By contrast, UK nationals, as a whole, received more in benefits than they paid in taxes, much the same as non-EU immigrants. A recent study by HMRC (2016) finds that new arrivals from the EEA are net fiscal contributors.

Given that EU immigrants are making net contributions, there is no reason to think that they should crowd out public services. Their extra fiscal contributions could be used to increase spending on local health and education for the UK-born. In other words, reducing EU immigration could generate the need for continued austerity. This would magnify the need for cutbacks caused by the slower growth of the economy due to reduced trade and investment from falling immigration identified by Dhingra et al (2016a, 2016b).

If immigrants cause social disruption, we would expect this to be reflected in crime rates. Bell et al (2013) find no effect of the big 2004 increase in immigration from A8 countries on crime.
Geay et al (2013) find no effect of immigration on aspects of educational attainment and
actually some positive effect from Polish children on UK-born pupils: the disadvantage in
having English as a second language seems to be outweighed by a stronger immigrant push to
work hard at school.

Wadsworth (2013) finds no greater usage of doctors and hospitals by immigrants relative to the UK-born; and Giuntella et al (2015) find little effect on NHS waiting times. These studies do not distinguish between EU and non-EU immigrants, but since EU immigrants are younger than non-EU immigrants, they are less likely to use health services, and the results are likely to be stronger.

There is a general perception that immigrants are given better treatment when applying for
social housing. Battiston et al (2013) show that controlling for demographic, economic and
regional circumstances, immigrant households are less likely to be in social housing than their
UK-born counterparts. Lack of access to social housing has more to do with the falling supply of social housing.

 

[Ex Footy Legs]

Voting for Brexit gave Tories free reign to shaft us as much as they wanted, everyone who was clued up realised this would happen.

It is both a Brexit and a Tory issue, arguing over which one is to blame seems rather silly.

Chappy. Excellent post.